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The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
I am more convinced than ever that nothing that traditional bar organizations are doing is going to move the needle on the sad stats on lawyer happiness ...
The root cause of all lawyers' problems is financial stress. Financial stress holds you back from getting the right people on the bus, running the right systems, and being able to only do work for clients you want to work with. Financial stress keeps you in the office on nights and weekends, often doing work you hate for people you don't like, and doing that work alone.
(Yes, you have permission to do only work you like doing and doing it with people you like working with.)
The money stress is not because the lawyers are bad lawyers or bad people. In fact, most lawyers are good at the lawyering part and they are good people.
The money stress is caused by the general lack of both business skills and an entrepreneurial mindset.
Thus, good lawyers who are good people get caught up and slowed down in bringing their gifts to the world. Their families, teams, clients, and communities are not well-served because you can't serve others at your top level when you are constantly worrying about money.
We can blame the law schools and the elites of the profession who are running bar organizations, but to blame anyone else for your own woes is a loser's game. It is, in itself, a restrictive, narrow, mindset that will keep you from ever seeing, let alone experiencing, a better future.
Lawyers need to be in rooms with other entrepreneurs. They need to hang with people who won't tell you that your dreams are too big or that "they" or "the system "won't allow you to achieve them. They need to be in rooms where people will be in their ear telling them that their dreams are too small.
Get in better rooms. That would be the first step.
Second step, ignore every piece of advice any general organized bar is giving about how to make your firm or your life better.
The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
Breaking Free from the Status Quo: Gary Miles on Building a Practice That Aligns with Your Life
In this episode of the Renegade Lawyer Podcast, Ben Glass sits down with Gary Miles, a veteran lawyer, recovery advocate, and coach for attorneys seeking purpose and freedom in their practices.
Gary is the host of The Free Lawyer Podcast and author of Breaking Free: A Guide to Achieving Personal and Professional Freedom as a Lawyer. He shares the mindset shifts, professional pivots, and life lessons that helped him leave insurance defense, build a thriving family law practice at 54, and now coach lawyers through burnout, imposter syndrome, and business growth challenges.
You’ll hear:
- Why so many lawyers feel stuck—and how to break free
- How your law degree can open more doors than you think
- The single most important business skill lawyers overlook
- What great coaching looks like (and how Gary supports his clients)
- Why mindset isn’t fluff—it’s the foundation of building a better practice
📘 Get Gary’s book: Breaking Free: A Guide to Achieving Personal and Professional Freedom as a Lawyer
🎧 Listen to The Free Lawyer Podcast
🌐 Connect with Gary: garymiles.net | LinkedIn
Ben Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury and long-term disability insurance attorney in Fairfax, VA. Since 2005, Ben Glass and Great Legal Marketing have been helping solo and small firm lawyers make more money, get more clients and still get home in time for dinner. We call this TheGLMTribe.com
What Makes The GLM Tribe Special?
In short, we are the only organization within the "business builder for lawyers" space that is led by two practicing lawyers.
One thing we're sure you've noticed is that despite the variety of options within our space, no one else is mixing
the actual practice of law with business building in the way that we are.
There are no other organizations who understand the highs and lows of running a small law firm and are engaged in talking to real clients. That is what sets GLM apart from every other organization, and it is why we have had loyal members that have been with us for two-decades.
So much of the stress we feel is self-created. You know what we think about is what we will feel. You talked early about having a vision of success and too many lawyers have a vision of failure. They're worried about losing the case, not having a vision of winning it. You know our perfectionism, our imposter syndrome, our self-doubt, our stress. So much of it is self-created.
Speaker 2:Welcome back everyone. I'm Ben Glass. This is the Renegade Lawyer Podcast, where I get to interview really interesting people, both lawyers and non-lawyers, who are making a ding in the world. Today I've got a great guest, gary Miles. Gary is both a lawyer and a lawyer coach and he's been doing that work for a long time. He really helps lawyers align their values and their purpose for living with some type of practice that gives them energy and keeps them really moving forward and being happy with the practice of law of Law.
Speaker 2:Gary is the host of the Free Lawyer podcast and not free as in we don't charge anyone, but free to live your life and is the author of a book called Breaking Free A Guide to Achieving Personal and Professional Freedom as a Lawyer. Gary, before we went live here, we were talking about our recoveries from little dings in the physical space and our visions of how good the recovery is going to get people to give themselves permission to be able to create a practice and a life that's just really good for them, oftentimes rejecting the status quo, what mom or dad thought you would be as a lawyer, or what the profession thinks. So I just kind of want to start there and we'll wrap back around to your background, but I'm curious as to, as we're in the middle of 2025 here and you continue to talk to and coach lawyers like what are you hearing out there from the lawyers who reach out to you and say I'm stuck, stuck, that's a word.
Speaker 1:I hear a lot and I think it came back to a little bit about what you said about me in the introduction is as I help folks align with their values. I think it came back to a little bit of what you said about me in the introduction is I help folks align with their values? I think all too often. You know, when I became a lawyer, there wasn't really much of such a thing as student debt, but now it's a commonplace, universal, and they're burdened with this debt and they want the big firm, the one with prestige, the one with a big salary. Everyone wants to try to get there. We compete in law school to get the highest possible ranking we can get, so we can go to that big, prestigious firm with a big salary. But we never really stopped to think about is that a good fit for us? Is that what we want? And there are a lot of different values that one could prioritize over another, whether it's prestige or money, or training or mentoring, or independence and autonomy.
Speaker 1:If independence and autonomy and entrepreneurship are important to you, a big firm probably is not the place to be. Because you handle the cases you're given, you handle the clients you're told to handle. You handle the cases the way you're supposed to and you don't have a lot of freedom and independence. And a lot of lawyers feel stuck because they've taken that job where they make such a nice income and they don't see how they could possibly leave and replace that income with the lifestyle they've built and yet they're miserable because they're doing work they don't like for people they don't really enjoy. So I've heard that story a lot and there are solutions to it because I think you know you and Brian have built such a great practice. It didn't happen overnight but you knew what you wanted to do and you chased after it and you made it happen and you were determined and you found your own path your own way.
Speaker 2:You weren't judged or determined by what mom and dad thought, your brother thought, your best friend thought what law lawyers and something happened to them and they're no longer able to produce the level that's required by big law, and I'm often I'm always shocked, Gary, when I have this discussion with them, that some of these young people obviously very smart, very smart people have never even seen or noticed, or no one has ever tweaked their interest in, what you just described, which is in the world I play in the solo and small firm world, and I think that's very sad and I really don't know what the answer is other than to keep writing about this stuff on LinkedIn and trying to be able to talk to as many lawyers before they go to law school and come out with that bondage of debt, so they at least see the people like you, me and the lawyers that we associate with and go wow, these guys and gals are happy, Like, how do I get there?
Speaker 1:So one of the things I often share on my podcast and my writing is you know, I graduated number one in my law school class and I clerked in federal court and every other clerk with me went to big law. And you know, I'm not quite sure I recall what my thought process was at the time, but early in my career I questioned it Like, was that really stupid? I could be making more money and this prestigious place. But somehow I innately made the right decision because I was trying cases in my first year and I could take on cases I had permission to take on, cases that were really fun and really successful, that I never would have had permission to take if I was in a different firm. So I think I kind of somehow subconsciously picked the right path for me and I think we all need to find our own path instead of taking the one that society may expect of us.
Speaker 2:If you were running a law school that truly had the best interest of its student cohorts in mind, like what would that class or offering be that you would add to the curriculum that says, hey, look over here, not everyone has to go to big law.
Speaker 1:I think that I would probably include in it a description of the different kinds of models of practice big law, medium-sized firm, small firm, solo firm, government work, in-house and let them know what and you've probably seen from the many lawyers you talked to. We could probably both sort of thumbnail what the pros and cons are of each. Neither is inherently right or wrong. One of the gifts of being a lawyer is we can do a lot of different things, and, of course, some other great lawyers I know have gone into legal tech or legal sales other avenues as well. Let them know there are options instead of feeling like this is what you should do that there are options, there are pros and cons to each, and then I would absolutely have a whole course on the business of law. You and Brian know how to run your practice and you run it beautifully. When Brian was on the Free Lawyer and shared how you take care of your staff and the incredible atmosphere you have where you're all part of a team and you all learn how to market and you coach others on that.
Speaker 1:People in law school don't learn that. They need people like you and me to help them with that and we're happy to fill that void. But that's something they should be learning in law school because it's more than arguing cases in court. It's a business of law and what that might be is different. If I'm a lawyer in big law because I'm still really kind of a solo attorney I have to bring in my book of business. I have to handle the cases. I sort of get what I deserve from what I produce. Even though I'm in a firm, I'm pretty much really a solo attorney and none of that is taught in law school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's sad. You've alluded a little bit to your background, I'm curious. You've alluded a little bit to your background, I'm curious, and you told us about your wonderful start, number one and clerkship. And I didn't have that. I wasn't number one, I didn't clerk for anyone, but I did have the opportunity as a very, very young lawyer to try cases and since we were doing insurance defense and medical malpractice and personal injury, I often got to be involved in cases that had multi-defendants and so I got to hang with and travel to other cities with some really experienced lawyers and I was blessed by that level of education and experience. But talk a little bit about your path to the career and then how you. A lot of us have the idea is that there's a something else over here at Jason that we could do. Very few people actually follow through. But I'm curious about your path to the free lawyer, to coaching, to being a mentor and a coach to these younger lawyers than you and I.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the one of the messages in my story is we can transform ourselves anytime we want to. I started off in insurance defense, as you did. I was in that for quite a while. I did mostly trucking work. Brian would be happy to have a case with me because my truck would have hit his client on I-95 in Richmond somewhere or something. And those are the kind of cases I handled. They're high level, serious cases. My carriers were very good. My claims reps were amazing. They're very professional, often lawyers actually.
Speaker 1:Because of the seriousness in that field, my first transformation happened in 1991. I was actually practicing law as an active alcoholic and I entered recovery and I've now been sober for 34 years and that made a huge difference in me personally, but also professionally, because I was so overwhelmed with fear and now I'm not. My second transformation is about 15 years ago. I completely moved out of insurance defense. I decided I wanted to become a family lawyer.
Speaker 1:Strange decision for someone who was then 54 years old to give up the field in which I'd been quite successful for so long and start doing family law. I did it for a business reason I needed more diversity in my income Rather than having just two huge eggs in my basket. I needed more eggs. But I also wanted greater fulfillment, because when the accidents already happened, there's not much you can do to change the result. I as an attorney can't make the plaintiff better, but in family law I can actually influence the outcome. I could come up with a solution. I could solve the problem. I could bring satisfaction to my client and avoid the terrible trauma they were worried about. And I love doing that. You know I like getting a thank you note from my client, as I'm sure you have from yours. I mean, it's so fulfilling.
Speaker 1:And then, when I moved to North Carolina a couple of years ago, I realized, after 40 odd years of trying cases, I was tired. Tired of arguing with lawyers, I was tired of competing. I was tired of trying to beat you and you trying to beat me, even though if we had a case against each other we'd be extremely courteous and very professional. But still we're trying to beat each other. And I decided I wanted to wrap my arms around lawyers and help them to succeed, because law has become a much, much harder profession during the years I've been practicing and I wanted to find ways to help them in any way that I could, whether it's my podcast, my writing, my book, my coaching, my speaking, whatever avenue I could get the word out to lawyers about how they can enjoy their practice more. That's what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2:You said something there, gary, very interesting that I agree with that. The law has become a much more challenging place to do business and to exist. Back when I started and you started, I mean, I actually worked in an office that had no fax machine.
Speaker 2:You know we waited every day for the mailman to bring the mail. There was no email, things did not happen 24-7. They did not happen instantly and there was a pace to the whole practice. That was just different Today click of a button and I've sent you my pleadings at, you know, five o'clock. There is, I think, so much technology to at least. And now you have, you know, you have a duty to understand, have some reasonable level of competence with technology. So there's that, and it's like every day there's something new that your friends are doing and you're wondering, do I need to keep up? And it strikes me that the tenor, at least in litigation, the tenor has kind of the temperature has kind of risen over the years. You know, I know I sound like an old guy when I talk to the young ones in my office, but we used to, every month, go to the Arlington County Bar Association luncheon.
Speaker 1:There's a lack of a personal connection that they're used to. Yeah, because when you and I had cases against each other when we started, I could send you a letter, but I don't know when you'd get it or when you'd answer it or when I'd get your letter. So I'd call you or I'd see you in the courthouse and say can we talk about that case? Or we might have lunch together, partners or generational room. We used to have lunch with a group of guys, 10 of them. They wouldn't all come every day, depending on their schedule, but every day they would go to lunch and every day they had lunch. That's where they would go, and so they had these relationships and it could be a source of encouragement, it could be referrals. We don't have those connections. Sending an email or a text and sometimes they can be a bit abrasive, the emails that you would never really say to the other person if you saw them face-to-face.
Speaker 2:And even if they're not abrasive, sometimes the story we tell ourselves, or even if they're not intended to be abrasive, the story we tell ourselves is you know, I can tell another old guy story because I can remember adjusters. Claims adjusters would call me and go you know when are you going to be up in the Arlington court? Oh, next Tuesday I've got a case. Great, I'm going to bring over these three cases at my checkbook and let's sit down and see if we can get them resolved. Literally out in the hall of the old Arlington County courthouse the claims adjuster would be handwriting checks for me for cases and of course that that doesn't happen anymore. I'm curious about the Brian and I have had this discussion today. If somebody cameage is too high, I'm not sure you really need that law degree. What else are you interested in?
Speaker 1:I think it really comes down to what the person wants. I think back in the day some people didn't get the job they wanted and they kind of backed into going to law school, like postponed the decision for a couple of years and then all of a sudden they're invested down that path. I think law can be a very good profession. Many people do very, very well at it and it's a worthwhile and worthy profession. But only if that's what the person really, really wants to do in their life and I think they should think about before they go to law school. What is it I would like to do? Because I don't think many people really ask that question before they start, like you know, five years out of law school. What do I want to be doing? Because then they can plan their law school experience, their work experience, towards that goal and start planning for it early.
Speaker 2:You know, one of the things we say to most young people who talk to us about that question is yes, because the law degree and the license can be a ticket or an entrance way to as you said earlier, gary to a lot of different things you can do. But then we always caution that with and go to the law school that'll let you go for three years for the least amount of money. Because unless you have this very definite plan that you want to go in politics or you want to go to big law or you want to clerk for a federal judge and this is very clear in your head as you're in undergrad school no one ever asked. The law school I went to had its ABA accreditation about 60 days before I showed up George Mason University. Nobody knew about it.
Speaker 1:I went to practice law in Maryland. I went to University of Maryland Law School. I would say 80% of the lawyers in Maryland went to practice law in Maryland. I went to University of Maryland Law School. I would say 80% of the lawyers in Maryland went to University of Maryland or University of Baltimore. And if you went to one of those two schools you had a whole network of folks who had gone to the same schools and they weren't going to talk bad about it because that was where they went. Would Harvard have been a real advantage if you went to practice law in Maryland? Not much, Maybe for a few positions, but not much. So I agree with that advice completely.
Speaker 2:You had an interesting turn in your life. You said 15 years ago you wanted to diversify income stream and so you chose to go into family law. I'm just curious about that if you can head back to what your thinking process was in terms of again a lot of verticals to pick from and I assume you didn't know a lot about family law when you decided, I think I want to go and expand this. So how challenging was it to become a new student or a student again, and to become competent and then good at representing clients in the family law space, become competent and then good at representing clients in the family law space.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that the concepts of family law are really pretty simple what's in the best interest of the children. You divide the property equitably. And it gets much more detailed than that, but those concepts are fairly simple. What is difficult is the application of them, when the husband's banging on the door at nine at night and he's not supposed to be there and the kids are screaming and the client calls you and you're like I don't know what to say.
Speaker 1:So I had a mentor, david Silverberg, who out of the goodness of his heart offered to help me and he didn't get paid. He didn't ask for anything. We had opportunities later to, so to speak, show our appreciation to him and he let me call him anytime. He gave me forms, he would look at things and then maybe within the first year when I'd handled six or eight cases, I didn't really need that anymore. My instincts were fine and my instincts might've been different than his. You and I might have different. You and Brian may have different strategies on cases, that's okay.
Speaker 1:But in pretty short order I felt very comfortable in handling it and it grew from. I grew it alongside my insurance practice. So I didn't start full force in it but in a couple of years two years it was enough for me, my son halftime and a full-time associate. So it was enough for two and a half lawyers and I was successful and highly regarded. And what we do as lawyers is so transferable to other areas. Once we get the knack, we get the vocabulary down. Like I don't do workers' comp, I feel like it's a big mystery. It's pretty simple but I don't know the vocabulary and the process. But I could probably learn that in a week and then I could do workers' comp work if I wanted to.
Speaker 2:And the transferable skills. It's so interesting. I'm speaking to other human beings to try to help them if they're my clients make the best decision they can. If I'm speaking to a judge, I'm trying to help the judge make a great decision. If I'm speaking to my adversary, I'm trying to convince them, or speaking to a jury, it's all the same. It's the human psychology of persuasion. That is what we do as lawyers and we, like many of us, just like the problem solving and the opportunity solving that we get to do for clients on this individual basis.
Speaker 1:The one soft skill I had to develop that I didn't really use much in doing insurance defense work because my truck driver didn't really care, he was covered by insurance, was listening empathetically. I didn't need to do that insurance defense but in family law you do and I developed that skill pretty quickly. It's not a difficult skill for me. But our clients want to be listened to and heard and understood with all their emotional pain that they're going through. And I'm sure you've seen that in the matters you handle because your clients have lost a lot in a different arena and they want to know that you understand their pain.
Speaker 2:It is one of the most important things that we do. So one of the things we do in the long-term disability space and part of that process is if an insurance company is denied a benefit, then you do an internal appeal. Back up the ladder to the insurance company is we do long-form interviews with the client Gary. Tell me your story, like how did you find this job or occupation, what was education like? And it really gives you, if you're the client Gary, a chance, an unfettered chance, to talk to me about your journey, which no insurance company has asked. And in a deposition it's so formal and the angst is often high there and they love that because we'll take that and translate it into language we need for the insurance company. But they're finally having someone who's listening and our team is trained on this empathetic listening and question asking. That makes the client's journey, makes them the hero of the journey, and that's what we feel. Like the lawyers, we are not the hero, we're the Sherpa that's helping the hero who has the hard life because they are sick or injured, and we're trying to get them in that case sort of contractual.
Speaker 2:What they've contracted for in terms of benefits Okay. What they've contracted for in terms of benefits Okay. So at some point you move to North Carolina and you make this next transition to the free lawyer and helping lawyers work through places where they're stuck, helping them match their own values with the workplace. So I'm curious now about that and what is it? Maybe you could tell us what is it like for a lawyer to come and to work with you? What does that program look like? How long does it take? What are you doing? What's the lawyer doing?
Speaker 1:I am for a six-month commitment from the lawyer. I'm his one-on-one coach. I don't use masterminds because, at least for me, with the people I work with, everyone comes with a different sort of problem. There's not a universal answer to the group of clients that I have. I limit it to eight clients only. They get two one-hour sessions a month. They get unlimited texts or emails most preferred texts and they get any calls as needed when they're in an emergency situation, a situation of unusual stress or conflict.
Speaker 1:There are a number of things I think they love about. They love having someone to talk to, where they can speak openly and honestly and confidentially so they don't feel so alone. They like being affirmed, because we are often our own worst critics. I think most lawyers are. We're harder on ourselves than we are on anyone else in the world, be it other lawyers, our family, our spouse and I help them create a vision of what their future can be.
Speaker 1:I've used a business coach and he saw in me an ability to do things that I didn't actually ever think of. One of them was coaching. One of them was starting a podcast. I told him Scott, there's no way I can do a podcast, I'm too old. No one will listen to it. And here we are, 330 episodes later.
Speaker 1:That's not the case, but I can see in them a vision of something they can do that they haven't even considered because they're constricted by their own past and what they've been able to do so far they haven't been able to do it so far by their own past. And what they've been able to do so far they haven't been able to do it so far. They don't see their ability to do it in the future. And then I help them navigate, give them advice about how to build their practice, how to develop their firm, and they love having that support and encouragement on a regular basis, every two weeks, but daily as well.
Speaker 1:I was in South Carolina visiting my brother and his wife for the 50th wedding anniversary and I had a personal injury attorney in California text me and say I need you. And I excused myself and called him on a Saturday and worked through what was troubling him and we got a resolution, a quick call 20 minutes later. He was like man, I really appreciate that. You know to have someone who's always there to lift and support them.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, this is Ben again just butting in here. If you don't already have a copy of my book Renegade Lawyer Marketing, you're really missing an opportunity to help your firm grow. This book is 300 pages of very practical advice for those of us who are running solo and small firms and who are not spending tens of thousands of dollars or hundred million dollars on advertising. At Ben Glass Law, over 80% of our new leads start because a human being has mentioned our name, and in this book, brian and I share the secrets that make this possible. Now you can get the book over at Amazon, but if you do, you're going to miss out on three really terrific bonuses that are only available when you order the book from renegadelawyermarketingcom. Number one you're going to get our ultimate referral letter. This is the exact letter that we've used to drive referrals both from lawyers and other professional practice owners, including healthcare providers in our case, and has helped us accomplish our financial and growth goals. Second, you're going to get our intake success system, because what good is it to drive more cases, to get more leads if you don't have a system and a person and a script for answering the phone when they do call? The intake success system is a complete course that will help you and your team convert more leads. And finally, you're gonna get the notes from the latest Great Legal Marketing Summit. These are 100 pages of notes and slides from all of the speakers at our last summit. And again, none of these bonuses are available on Amazon.
Speaker 2:Finally, if you like, after you buy the book, you'll be able to get on a 20-minute strategy call with either Brian or me. What we're really good at is helping you figure out what's the best use of your next dollar and your next hour in building the perfect practice to serve your life. So go over to renegadelawyermarketingcom, pay shipping and handling and order your book today. I think this is critical. I, too, have had a one-on-one coach for seven or eight years, and I think it's for me it's been so important to have someone who's not my spouse, who loves me dearly, not my business partner, but a third person who can we can celebrate wins with in a way that you can't in sort of normal social conversation. You can commiserate with or complain to and have someone else listen empathetically, but then tell you you're full of crap and you're thinking as all models.
Speaker 2:Oh do accountable as well. Right, Be accountable. So do you find yourself on these conversations more talking about sort of nuts and bolts? Here's like a business solution or rewiring perhaps what's going on in their head and having more of a mindset type conversation.
Speaker 1:Gary, it probably in the beginning it varies, but in the beginning it's probably more of the mindset, because so much of the stress we feel is self-created mindset, because so much of the stress we feel is self-created. What we think about is what we will feel. You talked early about having a vision of success and too many lawyers have a vision of failure. They're worried about losing the case, not having a vision of winning it. Our perfectionism, our imposter syndrome, our self-doubt, our stress so much of it is self-created because we resist circumstances around us we don't like. It may be the other lawyer, it may be our client not taking advice, it may be changes in the economy and how they affect our practice area.
Speaker 1:We resist those things. We can't do anything about them. So I work a lot with them on accepting those things as being what they are. Those are the circumstances. We can't change them. We can't get mad about them. What are we going to do about it? You know how are we going to, how are we going to respond? What choices will we make? Purposefully because of them. But then invariably it evolves into more of a business coaching, because until we get their mind in the right place, they're not really able to move forward with the other strategies.
Speaker 2:And then in the business coaching side, is there an area of running a business that you think like lawyers need really the most help with. So you can, but it could be like you're not a numbers guy, You're not a culture guy, you don't know how to hire and fire all that. I have my view on what it is, but I'm curious what if you see a trend like the one thing that if, if more lawyers could get this right, then there would be fewer sad lawyers?
Speaker 1:I think that in terms of a business practice, the biggest thing is figuring out. What should I do? What should I hire someone else to do? How many staff do I need? And I think they really labor with that decision. I've seen some lawyers are spending much too much time doing intake. I think you have folks who do intake for you. One lawyer he spent 11 hours a day doing intake. I said at $400 an hour, think what a department you could build to grow intake and still you'd have a lot more money left over. And some lawyers don't pay enough attention to those things. So I think that's the right thing finding Finding. What should I do about bookkeeping? Should I do it? Should I hire someone? Who? Should I hire Marketing paralegal? Should I hire one? Should I use a virtual one? Those sorts of decisions are difficult for them to make because they've never thought about them. They just practice law.
Speaker 2:I agree, and I would put that all under the umbrella of the people issue, in part because we don't frequently hire, we don't frequently have to terminate when the other person's not expecting to be terminated and so we're not really good at it because you don't get enough reps at it. And then when you need someone, we find that so many lawyers kind of panic like, oh, there's not a long enough line here and this person is pretty good but they're not really going to improve my team they're only a CPOS player, but I need somebody right now. Whereas if at every hiring they were getting someone who was better than anybody else on the team, including us, like Brian. I say to Brian like what if we got a lawyer that was better than all of our lawyers? Right now we have good lawyers Like that's really the thing that will keep freeing Brian and I up to go and continue to build the business and have fun with the practice. So I think it is a challenge.
Speaker 2:And the other challenge there is in these small firms. Everybody knows each other and so we oftentimes wait too long when we know someone isn't a good fit. Maybe they were at a certain level. Now the firm has grown. It's no longer the right place Doesn't mean they're a bad person, but it means that this place isn't the best place for them, and nor is it the best place for them to be for us, and so those decisions get delayed. So you have this book Breaking Free A Guide to Achieving Personal and Professional Freedom as a Lawyer. You have your coaching program, with a limited number of slots available. Do you want people to reach out to you? Do you have spaces available now?
Speaker 1:I do. I always want people to reach out to me and if nothing else, I'd love to have a courtesy call and see how much I can help clients on that call.
Speaker 2:And the podcast is the Free Lawyer and you said, I think, about 350 or so episodes 34. I've been recording and scheduled. Well, that is awesome, and because most podcasts last about four and or so episodes, 34 have been recorded and scheduled. Well, that is awesome, and because most podcasts last about four and a half episodes and then they go away. So good for you. All right, gary. So where should people go if they want to reach out and have a conversation with you, and I thank you for making that offer.
Speaker 1:Sure. My website is garymilesnet. No-transcript.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, we enjoy the work that we get to do and literally, we built the law firm. We wanted to build a firm where people would thrive the owners, the team that comes here to work because if both of those are thriving, then the clients will be well served. And the thing that we have built, the thing that we are good at at Ben Glass Law, is you will have a great client experience with us. We think, unbeatable client experience. We're good lawyers, but there's a lot of good lawyers out there, right? So, gary, I want to thank you for your work. Thank you for carving out some time. I don't know if you can hear it, but I do hear the Thunder Boomers now have probably landed right on top of our building here in Fairfax and I hope to meet you in person sometime.
Speaker 2:I would love that Through ProVisors originally and I want to thank my most of my members who said there's this group called ProVisors and you ought to go check it out because there's a bunch of really neat people in it. Very good, thank you, ben. I appreciate you. Thanks, gary Okay of the Renegade Lawyer Podcast. If you found this episode valuable, do me a favor subscribe, leave a review and share this with a fellow lawyer who needs to hear it For more powerful strategies on marketing, practice, growth and taking control of your legal career. Head over to greatlegalmarketingcom. You can also find us on LinkedIn Search for Great Legal Marketing and Benjamin Glass to connect. Stay tuned.
