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The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
I am more convinced than ever that nothing that traditional bar organizations are doing is going to move the needle on the sad stats on lawyer happiness ...
The root cause of all lawyers' problems is financial stress. Financial stress holds you back from getting the right people on the bus, running the right systems, and being able to only do work for clients you want to work with. Financial stress keeps you in the office on nights and weekends, often doing work you hate for people you don't like, and doing that work alone.
(Yes, you have permission to do only work you like doing and doing it with people you like working with.)
The money stress is not because the lawyers are bad lawyers or bad people. In fact, most lawyers are good at the lawyering part and they are good people.
The money stress is caused by the general lack of both business skills and an entrepreneurial mindset.
Thus, good lawyers who are good people get caught up and slowed down in bringing their gifts to the world. Their families, teams, clients, and communities are not well-served because you can't serve others at your top level when you are constantly worrying about money.
We can blame the law schools and the elites of the profession who are running bar organizations, but to blame anyone else for your own woes is a loser's game. It is, in itself, a restrictive, narrow, mindset that will keep you from ever seeing, let alone experiencing, a better future.
Lawyers need to be in rooms with other entrepreneurs. They need to hang with people who won't tell you that your dreams are too big or that "they" or "the system "won't allow you to achieve them. They need to be in rooms where people will be in their ear telling them that their dreams are too small.
Get in better rooms. That would be the first step.
Second step, ignore every piece of advice any general organized bar is giving about how to make your firm or your life better.
The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
Time, Boundaries, and Building a Life You Don’t Need to Escape From
What if the root of your stress wasn’t your calendar… but your mindset?
In this episode, Ben Glass talks with Elizabeth Grace Saunders, internationally recognized time management coach, speaker, and author of three books, including Divine Time Management. Elizabeth helps high-achieving professionals—especially lawyers—get their lives back without sacrificing success.
Together they unpack:
- Why overworking is often tied to self-worth
- How to define what kind of firm—and life—you actually want
- Practical ways to delegate, set client boundaries, and protect family time
- How one PI lawyer made more in Q1 than all of last year—with less stress
This episode is packed with mindset breakthroughs and tactical tools for lawyers who are tired of burning the candle at both ends.
Ben Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury and long-term disability insurance attorney in Fairfax, VA. Since 2005, Ben Glass and Great Legal Marketing have been helping solo and small firm lawyers make more money, get more clients and still get home in time for dinner. We call this TheGLMTribe.com
What Makes The GLM Tribe Special?
In short, we are the only organization within the "business builder for lawyers" space that is led by two practicing lawyers.
One thing we're sure you've noticed is that despite the variety of options within our space, no one else is mixing
the actual practice of law with business building in the way that we are.
There are no other organizations who understand the highs and lows of running a small law firm and are engaged in talking to real clients. That is what sets GLM apart from every other organization, and it is why we have had loyal members that have been with us for two-decades.
I just decided I wanted to work with the best clients instead of every client, and so I became a lot more selective in like who I was working with, what projects I was taking on, how much I was charging for those, so that I could be building my business without working a lot more hours. If you're good at what you do, there will be plenty of people that want to work with you, and some people won't, because you say no or you set a boundary or you're not available at a particular time. But the people that recognize your value, they'll wait or they'll find a way to work within the system that also works for you, hey everyone.
Speaker 2:This is Ben. Welcome back to the Renegade Lawyer Podcast, where I get to interview people inside and outside of legal who are making a ding in the world, and today I've got a great guest. You know, one of my favorite topics time management. As you all know, who followed us for a long time Like when you're an entrepreneur and you're running several businesses and a big family and all that stuff like figuring out how to get it all done so you don't steal from your family, right? So you don't like stay late at night or work on the weekends, which is really stealing from your family. And so today we're going to talk to Elizabeth Graves Saunders. Elizabeth is an internationally recognized time management coach, author and speaker. She's the founder and CEO of a company called Real Life E, a time coaching and training company that empowers individuals to achieve more success with less stress, and we'll talk about her schedule makeover process. She's worked with clients all over the world, except for, she told me, antarctica.
Speaker 2:We can maybe fix that and worked and understands the life of attorneys, who we talk to mainly here. Elizabeth has got three books out the Three Secrets to Effective Time Investment, how to Achieve More Success with Less Stress. Second book, how to Invest your Time Like Money. And then a cool book I want to talk about, which is Divine Time Management, the Joy of Trusting God's Loving Plans for you. So welcome to the program today, elizabeth. Thanks for carving out some time for us. I am happy to be here, you told me before we went live. You've been doing this for a number of years. I'm always curious about the entrepreneur's journey, because you were doing something before you did this, and so tell us what led you to the space of being a leader and a thought leader really in this space of time management.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was actually fixing my own issues accidental entrepreneur and did writing, editing and photo styling for about 50 magazines around the country, as well as for marketing firms and marketing departments within corporations, and really enjoyed what I did, was so grateful it was working.
Speaker 1:But because I fell into it, I didn't go over the plan for my time and I had no work-life balance, so I would do some personal things during the day but then end up working really late at night. I would feel like I had to work Saturday and Sunday. I literally never had a time that felt like I could stop working without feeling guilty, and so I was okay with that for a few years. But after a couple of years I was like enough is enough. If I can never take a break, I don't feel successful, and so I started to figure out how to get my own time in order to not work at night, not work at the weekends, plan better, set priorities, set boundaries and expectations, and it was successful. And my entrepreneurship friend said this is amazing. You should help other people, and that's what launched the idea for doing time management coaching, which, since early 2009, I have helped people all over the world in improving their time management.
Speaker 2:So one of the things that has to be true when a professional, an entrepreneur, business owner is feeling out of control and starts to want to grab back their own life, is that they have to, I find, give themselves permission to do that. Because it's funny, and you know this, like we build things, we build things to help people and then we feel guilty when we build things to help people but now it's crowding out our own life and we start to say no. So if that's true for you, if you had to overcome this mindset hurdle of giving yourself permission like what was your framework, Elizabeth, for thinking about that problem?
Speaker 1:Right. So for me, so for me personally it was multifaceted and obviously each person can vary in their experience and kind of their thought processes. But there was I would say there was two parts. So one part was that I realized I had to work through some of my own self-worth issues own self-worth issues. So at that time when I was crazy busy working, all the time I had some inaccurate views of things such as my values and what I do, and so if I stopped doing things, then I'm worthless. So you know, that obviously creates a pretty strong drive to feel like you're perpetually productive. So that was like a really important thing that I had to work through.
Speaker 1:And I am a person of faith, I'm a Christian, and so that was both like a practical thing as well as a spiritual thing of finding my worth just in being me and who I was created to be. And then the other part of like not feeling guilty for like letting people down or not being able to serve everyone every time, I guess again, that was like a couple of elements. So one element was I just decided I wanted to work with the best clients instead of every client, and so I became a lot more selective in like who I was working with, what projects I was taking on, how much I was charging for those so that I could be building my business without working a lot more hours. And when I was working with people it was enjoyable for both of us and a good fit. So that was super important.
Speaker 1:And I think the second element of it is just recognizing that there's I don't want to say there's like more than enough. Like some people are afraid, like oh, if I ever say no, I ever set boundaries. Like I'm going to fail as a business owner, and like you will never want to work with me. That's just not true. Like there will be. If you're good at what you do, there will be plenty of people that want to work with you and some people won't because you say no or you set a boundary or you're not available at a particular time. But the people that recognize your value, they'll wait or they'll find a way to work within the system that also works for you.
Speaker 2:It's interesting and I don't know if you have worked with a personal development coach or a therapist or a counselor and I don't want to pry too deeply, but to the extent you're comfortable, this self-worth issue is really really important and I find in my circle of friends and in discussions in Bible studies and with men's group and mixed groups at our church that sometimes this feeling of I'm not worthy can be attached to a religious upbringing. It just can't. I don't know if it was for you, but it is one of those things that when you get somebody to realize that you are unique, you are special, you are built with a certain set of gifts, talents and interests, and they go oh yeah, that's right, that that's a big breakthrough. And so, to get you're comfortable, I am curious about that journey from diminished view of self worth to no, darn it. No, this is, I have something valuable to give to the world right, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I don't think it's ever that I didn't feel I had something valuable to give to the world, like I think I've always had that like confidence instilled in me from a young age, so I don't think that was ever an issue. Um, I actually and I don't think in any ways that my faith caused me to have an issue with. I don't believe my faith caused me to have an issue with thinking that my value was in what I did. I think it was actually a lack of faith and a more secular mindset that caused me to take that on, and it was through more fully embracing my faith that I was free from it. So I was a very high achiever in school and that's something where I got a lot of positive feedback, and so I think somewhere along the ways with that like with being a straight, a student and being valedictorian and all of that that you you can just take that on as part of your identity, like have my place in the world because I've achieved these things or because you know I have excellence in these various ways. So, but that's a worldly view.
Speaker 1:A faith based view is that you have intrinsic worth just because you are From the second you were conceived in your mother's womb. You're valuable like this little pin right here is of a baby's feet at 10 weeks inside, uh, their mom's tummy. Um, this little child at this size is absolutely priceless, um, not because of anything they did and so was. That was really critical for me and just being, how does God see me? Not the world?
Speaker 1:The world might say like, oh, this is a straight, a student, or you know she's a high achiever or she has this success in her business. Excuse me, but God just sees me as priceless just because I am. And then the second thing is really honestly being obedient to God's commands, because one of the Ten Commandments is to take a Sabbath. So if you're not taking rest one day a week, you're in the way that works for you. That goes against God's design and His plans for us, like that goes against God's design and his plans for us. And so me coming into just an understanding of God's love for me, just for who I was, not because of anything I did, and then his invitation to rest in him through the Sabbath was actually the point of freedom. So I wouldn't say my faith or religious upbringing in any way created that bondage.
Speaker 1:It was actually more the worldly ways of interacting, and it was faith that brought total freedom from that.
Speaker 2:And that's what Divine Time Management the book I assume, is all about. Let me ask you before I start to ask you questions about your program but but if, um, I'm always interested in the entrepreneur's habits, routines, and here I am talking to a time management expert. So if I followed you around for a couple of weeks and just looked over your shoulder and observed how you manage your, your day, your fitness, your spirituality whatever is or your clients, what would I see?
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I have a two-year-old, I'm married and I have a two-year-old. So you see that when I get up I get ready as quickly as possible before she wakes up, because I've timed it. And if I get ready before she gets up and then get her ready separately, it is literally 45 minutes shorter than if we're both getting ready at the same time. So we start the day that way and then, you'd see, I always start the day with a daily plan. So I write down, kind of what are my Key things that need to get done that day. That's like the touch point right after I get ready, super, super important to me. And then from there I the morning can vary a little bit depending on when my daughter gets up. So if she gets up early, then it's breakfast and all of that. If she sleeps later, then I'll get into what I call is my basically my planning and processing routine, and I've got two different elements to that.
Speaker 1:So on Monday mornings I do a more basically my planning and processing routine and I've got two different elements to that. So on Monday mornings I do a more extensive weekly planning and processing and then on a daily basis I do daily planning and processing, and what that is is a checklist where I go through kind of the key things I need to check to make sure I'm on track, as well as the key inboxes that need to get cleared. So, for example, on a day-to-day basis if it's Monday through Friday, that would be going through my business email, going through my personal email, making sure my voicemail is checked, all those sorts of things. And then, on a weekly basis, on Mondays, I do some things that I don't do every day but I do like to keep up on. So, for example, I'll check all my LinkedIn messages and connections once a week just to make sure I'm up to date there.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of like the foundation for my whole system in terms of making sure I'm not forgetting things. And then throughout the day, it's a combination of coaching calls as well as writing articles and newsletters and, you know, doing the business stuff that needs to get done, and then I try to wrap up by about 5, 30 or 6. And then in the evening it is time with my family, uh, before my daughter goes to bed, and then, when she goes to bed, getting a few things done, and then me and my husband going to bed, um, so that's like the basic structure for things like exercise. I have just arrangement with my husband that it's Tuesday, thursday evenings and then Saturday mornings.
Speaker 1:I go to swim because I am a swimmer for things in terms of prayer. I try to do that in the mornings while I'm getting ready, so just I have a list of things that I'm praying for on a regular basis, and then, when my daughter and I are eating breakfast, we listen to the Bible together on Bible Gateway on audio, and then, before she goes to bed, we read her baby Bible with her. So those are some of our basic routines that guide our systems.
Speaker 2:You alluded to this a little bit, but you know the addiction to social media and to electronic devices is crushing the brain of so many people around the world. So what do you and I assume that you coach that taming this addiction is important, so I'm curious again about sort of the framework for that. When you've got a new client that you're coaching business leader, entrepreneur, executive, whoever, whatever busy mom, perhaps, right, what is your training on that? And then if I followed you around for a week like, do you follow your own training?
Speaker 1:it sounds like you do right yes, yes, I definitely practice what I preach, so I can say that so I would say.
Speaker 1:First of all, there is huge variation and kind of where people are at with this. So some people, social media and their phone is like, honestly, not a big temptation or a big deal. I work with people of all different ages, so from their 20s to retired and everywhere in between, um, so I would say not to be stereotypical, but it's. It would usually be like more of my younger spectrum of clients that would be find this more of an issue than older, although that's not always true. Um, but anyway, number one, you have to figure out what works for you. Like some people don't want to be on their phones at all. Some people, uh, they're okay with it as long as they have it time limited. So I don't really judge like this is how much time you should or shouldn't have on your phone or on social media, as long as you're able to get the other things that are priority done for you. So we always start there, like what's right for you and what's aligned with your values and your priorities. Then from there, once you determine that again it depends on how addicted people are, how how addicted people are. So for some people, simply deciding like this isn't my priority and I'm installing. You know, facebook app or instagram app app is enough and they're they're good to go um. For other people it would be more like app blockers. So we actually put things in place, like, for example, freedomto, that you can install on your phone. It can also be on your computer as well as a tablet, and you can set certain hours when you can or can't access certain sites or apps, and it limits your time there. So I find, if people are really struggling, that that can be a great alternative, because it's just that instant reinforcement like you go to the app or you go to the website, it stops you and like, literally like, doesn't let you in. And there's even a different app that has nuclear option where, like, you have to basically reinstall your operating system to get around. So that is like something that a few of my clients have to do, not usually, but a few of if they're really good at getting around the app blocker and you're turning them off. So those are some of the different things that we we practice, and then for myself personally.
Speaker 1:So I would not say that I tend toward addiction, but, similar to almost anyone, migraine can just get tired sometimes, and so what I have found to be effective for me is a couple of strategies. So one is basically I call it kind of like my fun Fridays. So I there's a few apps that I do actually really enjoy checking, but I wouldn't say they add massive amounts of value to my life. So on Friday I'm allowed to like check them. So usually it's after work or if, like, I have like a few breaks um in day. But there's like a news app I like to do and another one that's just fun and I just give myself permission to spend some time on there.
Speaker 1:I probably probably, between all the time I spend that day, it's maybe like 30 to 60 minutes in total, but it's just my little outlet to not be like you can never check these things that you enjoy checking but also acknowledging I don't add a ton of value to my life, so I don't want them consuming a lot of time. So that has been really helpful for me to just be like it's my fun Friday. If I want to check, I can, but only Fridays, um. Then the other thing that's been really really helpful is sometimes you just want a mental break. So at to the right of me, on my desk, I have a couple books that I'm in the process of reading. One is about potty training my daughter.
Speaker 2:I don't even read this book.
Speaker 1:And when sometimes you just end a call and you just feel like you need a little break instead of going on Facebook or something like that I'm old enough by yes, I have a Facebook account I just pick up a book and I read like a page or two and then I stop, and so I find it's a way for me to like feel like, okay, I can just not hop right back into my next work thing that I need to get done and I'm getting something done that matters to me. Like I, I want to read these books and uh, it's amazing how much progress you can make in just like little little bits of time and that's it, and I don.
Speaker 2:You can make in just like little, little bits of time.
Speaker 1:And that's it. And I don't know if you pointed to a real book or yeah, it's actually physical books here. Here's one of them. I'm with you.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm with you in that, in that physical book realm, and that's a great idea, because oftentimes it's the uh, yeah, it's like the urge. It's the urge you're doing something, in the urge to really to pick up your iphone and but having a book there, particularly one that's important, very important to you and your husband's life right now, which is potty training the two-year-old yes, uh yeah, I can get through it.
Speaker 2:Um, so talk to us. Uh, folks who are coming to you now and you said there's a broad range of age groups and, I assume, experiences, but basically, like, what problem are they trying to solve? Because we all have, quote unquote, the time management problem. But it must get to a certain point where someone is now looking for a coach, a guru, someone who can walk them through this journey. So what do you find? We just talked about the lawyers. Let's talk about the lawyers, like the problem they are trying to solve, for when they find you and come to you and say, elizabeth, save me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, so I've actually been working with a lot of attorney clients recently, so I'm happy to speak to that. So I would say what causes with a lot of attorney clients recently, so I'm happy to happy to speak to that. So I would say, what causes people to really reach out to me is is a few different factors, so one I would say actually usually the most compelling factor is this often is getting to a point where it's causing conflicts with their spouse, complex with their spouse. So the fact that they are, you know, working late all the time or super stressed out, or their spouse can depend on knowing, like, when they're available to, you know, take a kid to activity, or if they're going to be around on the weekends or if they're going to be at the office all weekend. I would say that's usually like a tipping point where it's like, okay, my husband or wife is starting to get upset with me because they're like never know when I'm free and it feels like I'm working all the time and I feel guilty about that but I feel behind with work. So that is like one of the key factors.
Speaker 1:Another factor not all, but most of my attorney clients do have families, they do have children and they want to be present to them and they want to have time with them, and so not only is it that they want to make their spouse happy, but like they want to be there, they want to see their kids before they go to bed, they want to be able to take them to the park or, like you know, around the soccer ball on the weekend, and they don't feel like they can.
Speaker 1:So that's, that's something happening. And then the third element, more on the professional side, is that they just feel behind. So I have been working with a lot of personal injury attorneys and they might have a lot of clients that they kind of have on backlog and they having they could get to a settlement, but they aren't moving along fast enough to get to a settlement yet, and so they want to do that, or they feel like they're having a lot of clients follow up with them before they're following up with clients in different kinds of law that they're practicing, and they just don't want to feel like they're always on the back foot or behind or like slowing things down and being a bottleneck, and they want to make sure that they're either settling, getting into settlement or filling the hours that they need to so that they can be successful, whether it's their own firm or working for someone else.
Speaker 2:That's critical and, as a personal injury attorney and someone who coaches attorneys across the spectrum of consumer facing areas, it's like when there isn't a, when there isn't a hundred percent of deadline. You know, trial date next Monday creates action, but a settlement demand that's not fully drafted and reviewed and no discussion with a client yet can go. It can just keep going, and then the pressure does build, because that this is what frustrates clients. Like clients have no good way of determining who's a good lawyer, who's a bad lawyer. They just don't. They know who's delivering a great experience and who isn't, and so I imagine you know there's this combination of technology, but also this mindset, view of the world. So, as you start to unpack their issue of trying to make it great for the family and also trying to make it great for the clients, what are some of the things that you go through in your mental or whatever checklist? See, what does this person have in place? Where can I get the biggest bang for the buck immediately? How do you think about solving the problem?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it depends a little bit on what the organization is like that they're in, like whether they're working for a large firm or whether they have their own independent firm. So I will touch a little bit on both sides. I have been working with more people that are partners in their own firm recently, so I'll start there and then touch from on some things that are more like larger firm issues. So when you have your own firm, a really important place to start is just what kind of firms you want to create, and I find that that actually is really critical.
Speaker 1:So some people haven't figured out, like, am I really focusing in on this kind of law, or am I going to, you know, be doing personal injury but also estate planning and then also like some other kinds of court cases? And so just deciding what you're focusing on is really important, because a lot of times you're better in a particular area or more experienced by taking on some of these tangential things. That really slows you down. The second thing is also how big a firm you want to create, like, do you just want it to be you? And if you pair legals, do you want to bring on more attorneys? Do you like? How much do you want this to grow? Because there becomes a conflict when you are taking on more attorneys? How much do you want this to grow Because there becomes a conflict when you are taking on more and more clients but not taking on staff, and then you're getting overwhelmed. So you have to decide am I going to be more selective with clients or am I going to bring on the staff to make this all work? So that's another step of the process we go through.
Speaker 1:Then, from there, a lot of times the key systems we need to do in place is time for focused work, for you to do substantive work. A lot of times, people don't have this blocked out and they're just trying to fit it in in little bits between meetings or bits of time between when various staff is walking into their office and it really needs to be more focused for them to get things done. And then another area we look at is how they're managing their staff. So a lot of times there's inefficiencies in terms of that communication or tracking, and so we look at how to improve that. Then, from there, we also talk about their planning processes, like are they looking ahead for trial dates? Are they looking ahead for different filing that they need to do, so that it's not last minute, so they can delegate more, so that they have time to edit things. So we look a lot of those whole systems and then, beyond that, I think it becomes more personal. So for some people, for example, maybe they want to focus on exercise or like more time with their kids, or there's various other nuances. But I would say in general, like everyone needs to look at those beginning things I talked about.
Speaker 1:If you own your own firm and then if you're on more of the large law firm side of things, so that's going to look different. Law firm side of things, so that's going to look different where you're not necessarily like the only partner or one of a couple of partners. A lot of that is around boundaries and client expectations. So if you aren't like the senior partner, figuring out how you have conversations with the different partners that you're working with or reporting to, about how much you can take on, what's reasonable, what's not, what deadlines are reasonable, what's not, clarifying what they actually want from you and that you're delivering it.
Speaker 1:Also setting boundaries with clients. Sometimes things are emergencies, sometimes they're actually not, and so you know, do you really need to stay up till midnight on a Friday to do this? Probably not, and like figuring that out and then, within that context, definitely more efficient staff management, more efficient communication like email, and of course, planning and time blocking is also important. So I definitely worked with people in both scenarios. If you own your own firm, you have a lot more ability to kind of structure what everything looks like.
Speaker 2:When you're within a larger firm, you can definitely make improvements, but you don't have complete autonomy in terms of that you have this flexibility, you also often and I'm sure you have seen this find yourself having to get your hands in a lot of things that aren't really worth your time and energy. And so, because you're running this ship, and so I'm curious of how much of your energy, your energy is spent like in coaching delegation skills, because that's a game changer, and we find so many lawyers like well, if you want it done right, do it yourself, or nobody can do it as good as I can, which we have found to be wrong.
Speaker 2:But, I'm curious as to how you get through to these lawyers that it's okay to build a team and it can be a discreet, part-time gig worker, everything from there to a full-time, 100% executive assistant or another lawyer or something. What's your coaching on that?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 1:So we do talk a lot about delegation and I think there's a couple parts to this. So one is again what kind of firms do you want to build? So some people really don't want to hire a lot of staff and so I still think they can have, like a contractor, for example, do bookkeeping or something like that Absolutely, but they're going to maybe be delegating less than others, whereas other people are OK with hiring a lot of people. I definitely encourage delegation. I encourage delegation of a lot of like the admin, bookkeeping, obviously, all the paralegal work that needs to get done, even, you know, delegating to other associates.
Speaker 1:I find that sometimes more experienced attorneys are uncomfortable because they're like, well, they're not going to do it as well as me, because they're like, well, they're not going to do it as well as me. And I was like, well, yes, that's why they're not a partner, but you have to train them and then you have to have them give it to you in enough time. Where they haven't done it right, you can give them feedback and then they fixed it. And so there's definitely a lot of teaching them to let go of control of things that they can let go of. But then I also have found that sometimes wrapped into that are very legitimate concerns about the quality of their staff, and so sometimes it actually looks like letting people go and hiring someone. That's a lot better.
Speaker 2:Good for you, good for you.
Speaker 1:Their concerns about oh, if I delegate, this won't be done correctly, are actually completely legitimate, and so that is not uncommon that we have conversations around if you're feeling so nervous about delegating. Is there a staffing issue and do we need to rectify that with a new person?
Speaker 2:Talk to us a little bit, elizabeth, about what it's like to work with you. Is your work all one-on-one? Is it one-to-group? Someone who's listening to this and saying, oh, I need to talk to Elizabeth, what does that look like?
Speaker 1:time management made easy, and that happens one time per year. It's six months long and we're about halfway through it, so our next group starts at the beginning of 2026. But one-on-one coaching is offered all year round and I do either a three-month or a six-month program. The reason for that is I find change takes time. So it takes at least three months for people to figure out what works for them, to work on practicing those routine systems and then also to work on building resilience when they have a particularly stressful week with, like, lots of time in court or, you know, some kind of family stress or sickness. And so I work with people in, like I said, either three months or six months.
Speaker 1:And then what that looks like is we start out with a complete schedule assessment. So, looking at your overall schedule, talking through what are the recurring items, what are the more ad hoc items, how can we structure things so that the things you say are important to you personally and professionally you're moving forward on? So we begin there on the macro level. Then from there, with the three-month program, we connect three times a month. Six-month program is every other week and that's where we're doing a deep dive into some of the topics I mentioned earlier, having a chance to figure out how do those strategies apply specifically to your situation. I take notes as we talk in the next action guide so you get documentation of what we discussed and how you're going to move forward. And then we review and reflect. So I will hold you accountable for trying what we talked about, and not everything will work perfectly the first time, but we've got to try and experiment and iterate to get there.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, this is Ben again just butting in here. If you don't already have a copy of my book Renegade Lawyer Marketing, you're really missing an opportunity to help your firm grow. This book is 300 pages of very practical advice for those of us who are running solo and small firms and who are not spending tens of thousands of dollars or $100 million on advertising. At Ben Glass Law, over 80% of our new leads start because a human being has mentioned our name, and in this book, brian and I share the secrets that make this possible. Now you can get the book over at Amazon, but if you do, you're going to miss out on three really terrific bonuses that are only available when you order the book from renegadelawyermarketingcom.
Speaker 2:Number one you're going to get our ultimate referral letter. This is the exact letter that we've used to drive referrals both from lawyers and other professional practice owners, including healthcare providers in our case, and has helped us accomplish our financial and growth goals. Second, you're going to get our intake success system, because what good is it to drive more cases, to get more leads if you don't have a system and a person and a script for answering the phone when they do call? The Intake Success System is a complete course that will help you and your team convert more leads. And finally, you're going to get the notes from the latest Great Legal Marketing Summit. These are 100 pages of notes and slides from all of the speakers at our last summit. And again, none of these bonuses are available on Amazon.
Speaker 2:Finally, if you like, after you buy the book, you'll be able to get on a 20-minute strategy call with either Brian or me. What we're really good at is helping you figure out what's the best use of your next dollar and your next hour in building the perfect practice to serve your life. So go over to renegadelawyermarketingcom, pay shipping and handling and order your book today. Yeah, I was going to ask how you hold these guys and gals accountable. Do you have any extraordinary stories you could tell and anonymize of somebody who came to you totally at wit's end and worked with you for your program and turned their life?
Speaker 1:around For sure, for sure. So I have lots of people that turn their life around, and I guess a couple of ideas in terms of attorney clients that might be helpful to share is that I do have a personal injury client attorney client that I worked with very recently and when and I started working with her at the beginning of this year and something I felt very proud of with her is that she was one of those clients very good at marketing, very good at like, building her firm in terms of client development, but struggling with a backlog, and through our work together, she was able to get so on point that in Q1 of 2025, her revenue exceeded all of 2024. 25, her revenue exceeded all of 2024. Um, so that was like the power of focus, like not just getting clients, but like getting cases settled and to a good place. Obviously, I was not the only factor. She did have one, one large case that she worked on. Um, that was a big deal, but she was settling a whole bunch of them each month and so, um, that was. I was so proud of her and so happy for her to get the reward for all the work she's doing, cause if you're, you know, bringing in all these clients doing all these things but not getting to a close, then like you're not really reaping the benefit of it.
Speaker 1:Um, and then another attorney client that I can think of that I worked with within the last year or so.
Speaker 1:Her situation was that she was someone who had decided so she had her firm with another partner and she was someone who decided she did want to grow her firm.
Speaker 1:So, like, take it to the next level.
Speaker 1:And we worked together on a six-month program and from when we started to when we ended, she improved her productivity, improved her delegation, and did that in such a way that she was able to create more time for business development.
Speaker 1:So then she, by the end of that time, was growing her firm enough that she brought on two more attorneys as well as some additional paralegals just to keep up with all the work that they they were doing and so and she was in a different kind of law, but, um, but yeah, so I was incredibly proud of her because that was one of her goals and by leveraging her time better, she was completely caught up on the things she had to be responsible for in her firm. So then she could get new business and then she could also build the staff to deliver on that, and that was that was what she wanted to achieve. So I was incredibly proud of her, and in both cases they didn't do this killing themselves. They had more time to like, be home with their family, more time to exercise and and to be in a better place with all that's.
Speaker 2:that's cool and good for you and good for them. Oftentimes, it is the man or woman in the mirror who makes the most difference, working with a coach and a guru, and at the end of the day, they have to be accountable to themselves and to their families. No, that's great. What are you working on now? Do you have any big projects another book, live conference, anything like that going on?
Speaker 1:No, so not Lots of big things happening. I've written three books, so I'm good. No, that's awesome. You have a two-year-old. Yeah, and I have a two-year-old. I have a two-year-old, so I do all my work virtually. So I do do virtual speaking, but I don't do any in person speaking right now with having such a little peanut. So actually, what I'm working on just right now is just really, I don't know, sand and like refinement. So we're so things are going very well with my business. It's going on very, very well, but we're just trying to do like little tweaks, like, oh, can we do this thing on our website to make things a little better? Or can we have this part of the sales or onboarding process go a little more smoothly? Or, you know, can we reduce credit card processing fees in that way? So it's really I'm loving how everything's working. I don't feel a need to do something radically different, but we're just looking at those like little tweaks that can optimize the good stuff that's already happening.
Speaker 2:That's a very fun place to be in your in your life. I don't know if you looked at any of my stuff, but I've got nine kids and now we've got eight and in a few weeks we'll have nine grandchildren. We've been on that, on that journey, and when you go, you and your husband go from zero to one. That's life-changing and at two, mobile, active, consuming a lot of your energy potentially. Well, look, this has been great, Elizabeth. If folks would like to follow up with you, check out website. Obviously, I imagine books on Amazon, but you may also have them on website. Where should they go?
Speaker 1:Yep, the best place is my website, which is reallifee. So that's R-E-A-L-L-I-F-E and then another E, as in Elizabethcom, Elizabeth Grace Saunders and did.
Speaker 2:I pronounce that right Saunders, you did Perfect, perfect, well, look, thanks for carving out time in your busy coaching life and mom life and spouse life. We really, really appreciate you sharing your story and some ideas and I encourage folks to, because we're coaching exactly who's your avatar, like we are helping them with all of their sort of business side and we start with the same place you start with like what do you want this to be?
Speaker 2:Like what do you want this gig, this life to look like? All right, let's build a firm that supports that. Let's figure out what clients we need Now. Let's go figure out how to market, bring the clients in and then, yes, let's produce. Let's build a team and a philosophy that produces results, Because if you don't get paid, it's very hard work.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly All right.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Elizabeth.
Speaker 1:Sounds great. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:That's a wrap for today's episode of the Renegade Lawyer Podcast. If you found this episode valuable, do me a favor subscribe, leave a review and share this with a fellow lawyer who needs to hear it For more powerful strategies on marketing, practice growth and taking control of your legal career. Head over to greatlegalmarketingcom. You can also find us on LinkedIn. Search for Great Legal Marketing and Benjamin Glass to connect. Stay tuned.
