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The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
I am more convinced than ever that nothing that traditional bar organizations are doing is going to move the needle on the sad stats on lawyer happiness ...
The root cause of all lawyers' problems is financial stress. Financial stress holds you back from getting the right people on the bus, running the right systems, and being able to only do work for clients you want to work with. Financial stress keeps you in the office on nights and weekends, often doing work you hate for people you don't like, and doing that work alone.
(Yes, you have permission to do only work you like doing and doing it with people you like working with.)
The money stress is not because the lawyers are bad lawyers or bad people. In fact, most lawyers are good at the lawyering part and they are good people.
The money stress is caused by the general lack of both business skills and an entrepreneurial mindset.
Thus, good lawyers who are good people get caught up and slowed down in bringing their gifts to the world. Their families, teams, clients, and communities are not well-served because you can't serve others at your top level when you are constantly worrying about money.
We can blame the law schools and the elites of the profession who are running bar organizations, but to blame anyone else for your own woes is a loser's game. It is, in itself, a restrictive, narrow, mindset that will keep you from ever seeing, let alone experiencing, a better future.
Lawyers need to be in rooms with other entrepreneurs. They need to hang with people who won't tell you that your dreams are too big or that "they" or "the system "won't allow you to achieve them. They need to be in rooms where people will be in their ear telling them that their dreams are too small.
Get in better rooms. That would be the first step.
Second step, ignore every piece of advice any general organized bar is giving about how to make your firm or your life better.
The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
Live from Boston: Leveraging Public Speaking Events
This is a talk Ben gave in Boston and after you listen you'll go running to check your own disability insurance policy. More importantly, Ben shows attorneys how to leverage a speaking engagement for maximum impact.
Live from the American Association of Endodontists (AAE25) in Boston, attorney Ben Glass delivers the hard truths about disability insurance that doctors must understand before they file a claim. With 42 years of legal experience and a national practice focused on protecting professionals, Ben breaks down why most denials have little to do with your health—and everything to do with what’s not in your records, what your doctors don’t say, and the policy you didn’t know was flawed.
In this high-energy, no-podium session, you’ll learn:
- How to avoid critical mistakes before you file a disability claim
- Why your friends, HR, and even your treating physician may be giving you bad advice
- The danger of “own occupation” traps and group policy fine print
- And the exact moment you must talk to a lawyer like Ben
🎧 Listen now on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Ben Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury and long-term disability insurance attorney in Fairfax, VA. Since 2005, Ben Glass and Great Legal Marketing have been helping solo and small firm lawyers make more money, get more clients and still get home in time for dinner. We call this TheGLMTribe.com
What Makes The GLM Tribe Special?
In short, we are the only organization within the "business builder for lawyers" space that is led by two practicing lawyers.
One thing we're sure you've noticed is that despite the variety of options within our space, no one else is mixing
the actual practice of law with business building in the way that we are.
There are no other organizations who understand the highs and lows of running a small law firm and are engaged in talking to real clients. That is what sets GLM apart from every other organization, and it is why we have had loyal members that have been with us for two-decades.
Hey everyone, this is Ben Glass and welcome back to another episode of the Renegade Lawyer Podcast. This episode is a solo episode. This is actually the talk I gave recently at the American College of Endodontists and National Conference. I was invited there to speak about long-term disability claims, and before you go running and say no, I don't want to listen to this one, because these are the root canal doctors, let me tell you why. I think this would be valuable to you.
Speaker 1:Speaking is one of the best forms of media for generating referrals and for making yourself into an expert in your niche. A big mistake that lawyers make when they get a speaking engagement is they just put the date down on the calendar, they prepare their talk, they do their talk and that's it. There's nothing ever done to repurpose, to make the talk into a big deal, to do anything else with marketing, and that's a huge missed opportunity. I got invited to speak about five or six months before the event took place. They were paying my way to come to Boston and stay, and the invitation came because I've become fairly prominent in the financial advice to healthcare provider world, since I'm virtually the only long-term disability insurance attorney who is speaking in that world, in the spaces where those folks gather. At the time I got the invitation, I didn't have a specific book for doctors, so the very first thing I did was to say to my team I'm leaving on such and such a date for Boston and I want to be able to take a box full of this new book. I'm not even sure what the title of the book is going to be, but it's going to be about stories from doctors that it did turn out to be the title of the book, and so we need to get this book together. So before I did any prep for the actual event, my team and I went back through about 50 consults that we've done with doctors over the last year. I talked to doctors all over the country who are thinking about tapping into their long-term disability claims. We do a consult that takes about an hour. I charge about $2,100 for it, and in most cases those doctors never need to talk to me again, as they either don't pursue their claims because they aren't good enough yet or they go and get on the claim and get paid. We record all of those consults and post-consult, we have AI help us make extensive notes about the consult.
Speaker 1:I then took a selection of those AI-generated reports. I had AI generate stories for the book, anonymize the personalities by changing names, changing genders, changing location and changing medical specialty to generate the initial copy of what became Stories from Doctors. I then passed that first draft off to my team for them to edit it, to ask questions and to put it into final form. I then had my executive assistant, claire, design a cover for me and then we sent it off to Word Association publishers, who have been a primary publisher of my books over the years.
Speaker 1:The second thing we did is that we started to make a big deal in the messaging that we do to referral partners that I had been invited to speak to this national conference. I was going to speak to doctors and, of course, if they have any doctors or dentists who are interested in or thinking about going out of long-term disability like we are the firm we are the only firm they should be talking to. I want you to take away six things from listening to this talk. Number one listen to the stories that I tell, because storytelling is the most effective way to convince people that you know what you're doing. In fact, the AV guy, when he was setting me up in Boston said I noticed that you don't have any speaker notes. I turned to him and said yes, because I actually know what the hell I'm talking about. Number two is, of course we've already mentioned this is, we thought like, what else can we do? And what else we could do is we needed to produce a book that, of course, will now live in our inventory, be used for referral sources, be used to send to doctors. All of the clients we have who have treating doctors, who write attending physician narratives and reports for us, get a copy of this book now. So now it's a part of our arsenal that we didn't have before, but of course, we were motivated to get the book done.
Speaker 1:Next, you'll see that I'm not afraid to talk about our numbers. We do some pretty big numbers here and we've got a lot of claims under management which really adds value to the firm over the next decade or so, and so we're not afraid to talk about that. Again, if you've got a story to tell, telling that story is really an act of service. If you are the guy or gal who these folks should be going to, you want to make sure they're not wandering into somebody else's law firm. Next thing, of course, is we're going to take this talk and we're going to use it to leverage invites to both live appearances and podcast appearances again outside the legal world and into the medical financial space.
Speaker 1:There's a number of gurus there. We're in contact with a bunch of them and hopefully we'll get some in-person speaking events around the country, both sort of medical associations, but also to the financial gurus who are speaking to doctors. Often I'm the only lawyer showing up at these events. Actually, if you think about adding long-term disability insurance to your practice areas, this would be a good 30,000-foot view of that world. And finally, look how I make friends by talking about the business side. So I wasn't there just to talk about legal. We're really good at the legal. We're really good at business building too, and a lot of the doctors in the audience this day were owners or administrators of small medical practices. So it was another point of connection that we make all the time when we're speaking to other professionals.
Speaker 1:Okay, so here we go with the talk. Let me know what you think, and if you listen to this and you'd like to get a copy of the book, just reach out to me on LinkedIn. Give me a good mailing address and I'm happy to give you a copy. And I'm happy to give you a copy. I'm going to turn it over to Ben and let him give you all the things that I said wrong, but I appreciate your time and listening to me today. Kevin, for the recording, do you need me to be up here? No Good, I hate podiums and especially since there's no video recording and let me have this. So I'm so glad that you all are here.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you how this gig works. It's four or five or six months ago. I get a call from your organization. Would you like to do this? I'm like I love You'll see. I spend most of my professional time now talking to doctors of all types across the country about this subject. So I love this subject. Boston in the springtime Awesome, yes, agree to do it. And then it's not until later that they tell you oh, here's the schedule. It's the fourth day at lunchtime. He and I are on a call. I'm like is there going to be anybody in the room? Like, oh, yeah, I have a lot of friends. So thank you all. Friends of Mike.
Speaker 1:So my name is Ben Glass. I am an attorney. More importantly, although I did not put pictures of my family up there. I'm a dad. I'm dad to nine. We've got seven going on, nine grandkids.
Speaker 1:I'm in law practice with my son in Fairfax, virginia. I'm a longtime soccer referee, so I'm 51 years of refereeing. That's not a 51-year-old referee, that's 51 years of refereeing. So my first question is is anybody here have a teenager who's a soccer referee or a baseball umpire or a basketball referee? Nobody. I have a book for them. If you do, if you've got anybody, you know a book.
Speaker 1:I wrote about the mindset of that. Let me just ask you, if you have kids who are playing sports, my PSA is don't be that parent. Okay, go to the game, cheer positively for your team. You get guys and gals like me who are out there having fun ourselves doing the games, making mistakes. We are not NFL referees, we are just moms and dads. Okay, so we do two things.
Speaker 1:We run a personal injury automobile accident practice in Virginia. We've got about 20 people under roof there, and 20 years ago I discovered this kind of interesting area of the law. It came to me. I got my butt kicked for several years by insurance companies, but then I figured it out and so today, on a national basis. We represent people who have made mostly who have made the claim and got not the letter that you got, mike, but the letter that says you're a liar. You and your doctors are lying, you don't know what the hell you're doing, so your claim is denied. They come to me and we help expertise there.
Speaker 1:We started to deal a lot and get calls from doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs you all have complicated financial lives, often the owners of one or more businesses. You were born to do something very specialized in this case, something very specialized in this case endodontistry, if that's the right word and something has happened or is happening and you are maybe not going to be able to do what you were born to do. And you listened to the advisors who came and spoke to you in residency and said you need to buy these disability policies or you're working for a group that may have a group disability policy and you're like Mike. What do I do now? I spend most of my time today talking to you all about that question, which is something is going on. Here's my financial situation. Here's what I own and don't own. Here's what my doctors are telling me. Here's my policies I own and don't own. Here's what my doctors are telling me. Here's my policies. What should I do next? My goal and this happens 95% of the time is we're going to have like one call, one long meeting. I'm going to look at your medical records, I'm going to look at your policies and we're going to develop a strategy.
Speaker 1:Sometimes the strategy is your claim is not going to be approved because your condition isn't well documented, your restrictions aren't well documented, your financial records are a mess. You got to get that stuff fixed first before you go, because the worst thing you can do, or at least the thing that makes it harder for a guy like me, is someone who goes and starts a claim and that claim is denied and you have stepped in in it, like you have said something wrong in one of these interviews. Your financial records are a mess. You have you guys. Doctors like you go to your friends for treatment for free and nobody documents anything. So now we don't even have a medical record. We don't even have proof that you were there. I'm not joking, I've seen this over and over again. Like no, no, no, no, no. Don't get your medical treatment from your friends who aren't making a record just because it's free number one and don't get your legal advice from your doctor friends, because they don't know what they're talking about either, and usually HR doesn't understand these policies either. And that's what the discussions are that I have usually with a health care provider and his or her spouse who are wondering, as you did, am I going to be able to protect my family if this thing is something that I cannot recover from? So we get people back on claim and then we help manage those claims. So the life of the claim. We've got about $45 million of future claims under management and again, we consult and do work nationwide.
Speaker 1:We are mainly entrepreneurs. I get to practice with my oldest son and we and this will you know for those of you who own, like how many of you are the owner of a relatively small practice. You are the owner, maybe the administrator, of a practice. Brian and I are playing the game of business and we're playing the game of life. We happen to be really good at what we do legally, lawyer-wise, but we build a place where people will thrive, the owners thrive, our teams thrive and we believe that if the owners are happy and the team is happy, their clients will be well served. Same thing. So that's not what I came here to talk about. But I have a second business where I coach solo and small firm lawyers how to grow great practices. In this world where venture capital money is coming to law, these big 800-ton gorillas can spend endless amounts of money advertising. You know that if you watch any TV at all or if you're in one of these towns where there are billboards we don't really have billboards in Northern Virginia, my friends, but you go to Atlanta, philly, new York, right, you've got billboards all over the place. So I help. I also help those lawyers like build a practice, like let's build a real practice that we're going to have fun going to and clients to be well-served.
Speaker 1:Hey everyone, this is Ben again, just butting in here. If you don't already have a copy of my book Renegade Lawyer Marketing, you're really missing an opportunity to help your firm grow. This book is 300 pages of very practical advice for those of us who are running solo and small firms and who are not spending tens of thousands of dollars or hundred million dollars on advertising. At Ben Glass Law, over 80% of our new leads start because a human being has mentioned our name, and in this book, brian and I share the secrets that make this possible.
Speaker 1:Now you can get the book over at Amazon, but if you do, you're going to miss out on three really terrific bonuses that are only available when you order the book from RenegadeLawyerMarketingcom. Number one you're going to get our ultimate referral letter. This is the exact letter that we've used to drive referrals both from lawyers and other professional practice owners, including healthcare providers in our case, and has helped us accomplish our financial and growth goals. Second, you're going to get our intake success system, because what good is it to drive more cases to get more leads if you don't have a system and a person and a script for answering the phone when they do call? The intake success system is a complete course that will help you and your team convert more leads. And finally, you're going to get the notes from the latest Great Legal Marketing Summit. These are 100 pages of notes and slides from all of the speakers at our last summit. And again, none of these bonuses are available on Amazon. Finally, if you like, after you buy the book, you'll be able to get on a 20-minute strategy call with either Brian or me.
Speaker 1:What we're really good at is helping you figure out what's the best use of your next dollar and your next hour in building the perfect practice to serve your life. So go over to renegadelawyermarketingcom, pay shipping and handling and order your book today. That's our game and we make nice funny little like this isn't a billboard, but it hangs up in the gym that we support and sponsor a book. We're releasing this book this weekend and I've got 40 copies here and these are stories from my consults with doctors. Everything is anonymized, but each story talks about a different part of this claims process. So I do not want to carry these 40 books around in my bag heading back to DC tomorrow. So as you leave, let's make sure, if you'd like, that you pick one up for me. Real doctors, real stories.
Speaker 1:Okay, now I would like to remind you, like you come to these conferences and I know you all have learned a lot of science. Maybe there's been some business management here, maybe there has been some lifestyle stuff here, but you are the real heroes, particularly if you're running a small business. You're the economic engine of the country, no matter what anybody else says. Your patients and their families rely on you to get up, go in, and we know that what we do is hard, like being the expert at something law, medical, whatever, dentistry but running a business is really hard. So I just want to say, if no one else has said this to you in your four days that you've been here, that you are the heroes Like you really are. The world depends, relies and hopes that you do keep showing up.
Speaker 1:Okay, in one of the big issues that comes up when you have something going on and you're working with your treating physicians and the insurance company is sending you forms that they want your treating physician to fill out, is that doctors don't understand what the word disability means. And in society, disability can be everything from. Someone was telling me the other day you know, you're on a bed, you have an iron lung and you can't move, and some doctors think that that is what disability means. I'm not going to sign your papers, mike, because you obviously can move and make field goal signals and all that stuff right. All the way to what we're talking about here is something is going on where I can't do the duties we call it in law, the occupational duties of my profession.
Speaker 1:So if you're a lawyer, it's things like thinking, writing, getting up, trying cases. It's not really physically demanding. If it's like you all. That's physically demanding work, that's tedious, sensitive, exacting work and, under most of these, any policy that you should buy right. If you're restricted or limited from doing any of these duties and that causes your income to go down, then you probably have a claim under your policy. But sometimes it's like explaining this to the treating neurologist, neurosurgeon, orthopedist, oncologist, whoever it is like. That's hard and that's another thing that somebody like me does. So our team helps educate treating physicians so that they can speak insurance to the claims person who, yes, is trying I believe I'm biased and precious trying to deny your claim, trying to figure out a way to collect the premium and never pay you.
Speaker 1:So another reason if, look, people get hit by a bus, they don't need me. It's really obvious. You can't work, broke't work, you don't need somebody like me. But someone who's got a chronic condition, that's that's degenerating over time, like talking to somebody who does what I do before you start the claim process is worth it. Yes, we charge for that, but it is worth it, because what you're talking about is potentially decades of disability insurance payments from multiple policies and you just don't want to make that mistake. So it's a bunch of things. Of course this is. I have a slide for everything like why long-term disability insurance matters, for you know interventional cardiologists too, just so you know.
Speaker 1:But if you think about this, the other thing that is really interesting to me is you think your orthopedist knows what an endodontist does? Hell, there's people who don't even know what that word means. I've talked to some. This way I'm going to go speak to the American College of American Association of Endodontists and they go. I've got to look that up because I'm not sure where that is. I said root canals, they go. Oh yeah, I get it now. But nobody but an endodontist really knows how you spend your day.
Speaker 1:So if I was doing a consult with you and learning about your condition, if I had been talking to Mike and we didn't meet until we started to plan this talk years ago, I would have said something like if I followed you around for two weeks, what would I see you doing at the workplace? And he would have probably had some version of this right, I'm on my feet and I've heard some horror stories of I'm trying to see 60 patients in a day. I think it was talking, I think it was a dentist recently, like oh my gosh, I see 60 people in a year, 60 in a day, running around, but my point is. My point is, though, is that, as you are, if you ever happen to go through this, and as you're talking to your treating physician, never, ever, ever assume that he or she knows what it is that you actually do, and so one of the things we have our clients do as they're starting this process is, like write it out for me so that Ben knows. Like, don't assume Ben knows what an anodonus does. I don't really. I have this picture in my head, but I don't really.
Speaker 1:But now we're going to also take that to a treating physician, and what we're going to do is we're going to say, because these policies are all about what do you do? What are your occupational duties? They're not really about the diagnosis, because the diagnosis doesn't tell you much. You can have stage four cancer and still do some occupations, right, but really, what we're talking about is the way that your diagnosis restricts or limits or prevents you from doing what you were born to do, what you actually do on a day-to-day basis, and that's what a really good long-term disability insurance policy will do. Good long-term disability insurance policy will do, and we'll talk about in a little bit here sort of the different types of policies. And the other thing I'm really good at is like why in the world did practice buy this policy? Like it's not going to protect anybody and I'll give you a horror story about that, all right. So there's a whole bunch.
Speaker 1:So you know, beyond the sort of physical, there's the whole cognitive, like what you said. Like you look at an x-ray and you're now applying brain to it. You're processing what the patient may be telling you about symptoms. You are starting to make your, as I make my plan for my client. You are starting to make your plan for the patients and for my client. You are starting to make your plan for the patients. And so there is this whole and you're communicating. You're communicating, so there's this whole cognitive side to what you do.
Speaker 1:So you could have a condition and be totally physically able to do all of the material duties, but maybe you've got a head injury, maybe you hit your head doing those push-ups, mike, and now you've got a concussion and the concussion doesn't like most concussions will kind of resolve over time. But maybe you played football when you were little and this is your sixth one, and now your processing is slow. So I've got doctors who like, yeah, I used to be able to do 60 patients a day, now I can only do 30. I can still do everything. Sometimes my staff has to remind me what the problem is and is it right or left, and that sort of stuff. I'm like, well, that's dangerous, that's pretty scary. But my friend told me that as long as I can still do everything, I don't have a claim. Oh, your friend, like the disability lawyer, no, no, no, my friend, my doctor friend, who I knew, who I went to school with, don't get your advice on this stuff from your doctor friends or from HR, seriously.
Speaker 1:So there's this whole mental cognitive side that as you look at that x-ray and start looking for problems in the mouth, I'm looking and triggering. What other documents do I need to see mouth? I'm looking and triggering. What other documents do I need to see? What questions do I need to ask? Tell me more. Again, what I'm trying to do is to learn what it's like to be you in the workforce, all right, so now let's talk about this. And there's a bunch of information here and it's in really kind of small print. So now you need glasses to be able to see it.
Speaker 1:But let me talk generally, because most people that I talk to have both some sort of group coverage. Someone has come in and sold to the practice what we call a group disability insurance policy. That covers everybody and asks no questions about a pre-existing medical condition or age or anything else. Right, it's so that people like us, who are entrepreneurs, who are hiring people, can offer a table of benefits health or medical benefits, life insurance, dental benefits, disability insurance and what are we usually thinking about as the business owner when we are offering these benefits? How much is it going to cost? How low can I make? It Right, and that's fair.
Speaker 1:But that's why most of these group policies are nowhere near as good as an individual policy. So, for my friends in residency, yes, joe, yes, if you're young and healthy and a broker is trying to get you to buy an individual policy, you're like, oh God, that's pretty expensive and I have this debt. Like, oh my God, like those are the best policies, like they just are. And I got some when I was, you know, 23, 24, kept them until 65. I just turned 67 now, because they wouldn't provide as much coverage for me now as they would in the past. I dropped them right.
Speaker 1:We talked about this a little bit, but you'll be pitched on these group policies and I'll tell you about a regular group policy. They're all different. They're all different, but a regular group policy typically is going to protect you and your team if something happens and they can't do their own occupation for the first two years. That's very standard. I see some crappy policies where I go. You have a one-year own occupation. Who would buy that? It probably costs 25 cents more per head per year to get two years. Who would buy this stuff? Well, no one knows. No one told them we were trying to get the cheapest.
Speaker 1:A typical group policy is going to have a mental and nervous limitation in it. The policy calls it. Let me tell you what that is. It says that if your disability, if your inability to work, is because of some mental illness maybe addiction, sometimes cognitive you got hit in the head but you don't, really you don't have a positive MRI, Insurance company is going to try to go. Congratulations, mike, you win. We approve the policy and even though you've got a hundred physical things going on, they're like we think you're depressed. Of course you're depressed, you can't work and you've got all this physical ailments and so, yes, we're going to approve the claim for 24 months. And that's where a person like me comes in and goes hmm, that looks wrong, we've got to get that claim upgraded. Let me look at the records. Let's find out. What do you do day to day? What have your doctor said about your limitations and restrictions? Because we're trying to move it. If it's legit, we're trying to move it out of the mental and nervous limitation and over into the physical limitation.
Speaker 1:Let me give you one piece of advice here. I have lots of advice, but you know, I think the biggest problem that people have when they're going through the claim process is you got to be brutally honest with the insurance company. Like if you can do stuff, and they ask you the question, like you don't have to volunteer answers. But if they ask you, can you drive, can you drive at night, can you lift 10 pounds, and you lie about that, you're just shooting yourself in the foot, like you're going to get caught. They're going to find your Facebook, your LinkedIn, your friend's Facebook, your friend's LinkedIn. They're going to find you on Twitter or X, or they're going to do surveillance and they're going to catch you doing the one thing that you told them you couldn't do. That's a kiss of death. So our advice always is you got to be brutally honest. And my job is to say but you know what, if you tell them this brutally honest fact, it's still going to be okay. Like, again, don't go listen to your friends who are telling you. Don't tell them that you can swim 30 laps in the pool on Saturdays. Don't tell them that I'm like you better tell them if they ask the question you don't have to volunteer, but if they ask that question, you better darn well be truthful about it.
Speaker 1:Okay, typically, again, employer, like I look at some of these policies and I go like who would buy this stuff? And I'll show you a policy. I'll show you. I'll talk about a policy written by a major, a major player in the disability space and sells a lot of policies to doctors and they sell some of the crappiest policies ever and somebody's buying them. So again, really good if whoever in your group, your practice is making the buying decision. Like you know, I have firms reach out to me. Here's three policies.
Speaker 1:We are a group of you know, cardiologists. We're not surgeons. This is what we're trying to protect. What do you think? Let me explain it to you. And the cool thing is, since I don't sell this stuff, I don't have a dog in that fight.
Speaker 1:I just know what it looks like on the other side and claims, and I'll tell you this that most of the people selling this stuff good people, good people find one that you can trust. They've never seen the inside of a claim file. In fact, I've been told insurance companies don't want them to know anything about the claims process, even though the first person you're going to call usually when you have a claim is your agent. That agent has never seen a claim file, has never seen the emails, has never seen the claim notes, has never seen the defense doctors who look at these things and, without ever looking at you or doing anything other than looking at a pile of medical records, deems you able to do all of your occupational duties. They have no idea, and so I have a lot of friends who are selling this stuff and they just send their clients over here because they know we've seen it. We talked about this after 24 months.
Speaker 1:So in most of these group policies, they'll protect you if you can't do your own occupational duties for 24 months, and then it goes to some version of this, what they call any occupation, now meaning you're only going to be deemed disabled, you're only going to get payments if you can't do quote any occupation. That doesn't mean if you can go sit at the front of Walmart and say hi to people when they come in, that you're not going to get paid. What it does mean usually is that now there are policies that really will get you down just about that low. Again, there's crap policies out there. Usually, though, it means the term any occupation means an occupation that would pay you as much as what we are paying you in disability benefits, so it can be a little bit complicated. This is where the big fights are in my life, because many people who come to me are insured under group policy. They're protected for the first two years and they paid for two years, but then the insurance company finds another job. You could do by looking at something called the Dictionary of Occupational Titles, which was last updated, like 30 years ago, and so they have like occupations in their computer that don't even exist in the world anymore. But they said you could go do it, and so that's where a lot of my fights are Typically and Mike alluded to this I'm not an accountant.
Speaker 1:I don't give financial advice, but I'll tell you what the general rule is. If you're paying the premium for the policy, then the benefit is tax-free. If the employer pays the premium for you, then the benefit is taxable, all right. So that's the simple black and white rule there and typically these group policies. It can get really complicated if you leave and you've got something going on. You already got something going on. You may not have a full-blown disability yet, but you leave that practice and you go to another company to work with a different disability insurance plan and now we start to think about things like pre-existing condition. There's ways around it. About things like pre-existing condition, there's ways around it. I will tell you that most of these policies provide that if you are insured up to you know your last day and then your next day you're insured under a different policy, we will cover you. I mean, most of them do.
Speaker 1:A lot of our fights are about that. A lot of our fights are about so-called pre-existing conditions. All right, and they're cheap right, these group policies are cheap. The other thing that a group policy benefit will do is they'll make you apply for Social Security, disability benefits. And then if you get even if you wouldn't qualify like even if there's no way on this earth that you would qualify they make you go through. That. That's already been litigated.
Speaker 1:It's fine. It seems to add a layer of unnecessary work for everybody, but it is what it is. But then if you get the Social Security, then that offsets or reduces what you're going to get under the group policy. Again, why do they do that? It's to keep the premiums low so employers can offer this array of benefits. Right, if can buy, if you're an employer, you can buy out of that and it's not very expensive to buy out of that. So just because the broker shows you a policy that has a social security disability offset and says we're going to get your premiums really low because if your team member goes out on disability and gets social security, we're going to have to pay them less. If you want like you can pay. It's not a ton of money, but that's a negotiable. Almost all these terms, almost all of these conditions in a group policy are negotiable, all right. It's just that no one's asking the questions. They just want to know do I have a good medical benefit plan. If someone dies, can we pay them some life insurance? And do we have a disability plan that we can advertise? And I and as a business owner like I understand that All right.
Speaker 1:Okay, now the individual policy again. If you're young and you're healthy, go and get it. Suck it up. It costs more money. I paid for probably 40 years and, god bless, I never had to use it. So it's money spent. But me, I and my family had this protection for a long, long time if something had happened. I don't need it, so I let it go. Obviously, the individual policies are portable, so it doesn't matter who you're working for.
Speaker 1:A thing to remember, though, is this is that, when this applies to all the policies, when the insurance companies, the first question they ask is what is your occupation? Second question is prove it. Usually, with you all, with the medical profession, they're talking about getting your billing codes, and you've got some computers that show what procedures you actually do. So we'll have people who have something going on. They have a legitimate claim that they could make, they talk to their friends who aren't lawyers, and they go. You make too much money. I had this OBGYN.
Speaker 1:Something happened. He couldn't operate, still made multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. His friend said you make way too much money to make a claim. His friend perfect. Meanwhile income goes to about 40%. He had a valid claim. He had a valid claim for that diminution, a partial disability. He didn't make it because he got advice from his friend. What happens is when he finally, when his condition progressed and he couldn't work anywhere anymore, insurance company says well, what's your occupation? It wasn't OBGYN surgeon, because he hadn't been doing that for a number of years. It was OBGYN, pure clinical right, and so everything like what they paid him was based on that reduced income. What they were evaluating his claim against was not could he operate, because he hadn't done it and there's a time limit for making claims. So it's another piece of bad advice that's out there is that if you can keep working, you don't have a claim.
Speaker 1:If you've got something going on and it's reducing your ability to work and it's reducing your income, talk to somebody, pull your policy out. When do people read their policies? Not when they buy them, when they need a claim. Start to read your policy and talk to somebody like me, because it's important that if you have a claim, that you make a timely claim. Yes, everything is negotiable, customizable in an individual policy, and important for you all is these individual policies most of them are not for two years like or let me slow down If you can't do your own occupation, for the whole term of the policy, usually to age 65, 66, 67,. If you can't do your own occupation, we whole term of the policy, usually to age 65, 66, 67,. If you can't do your own occupation, we're going to pay you. So it doesn't revert to at any point this any occupation, harder level of disability Now you can buy one. If you're not paying attention. You can buy a bad individual policy, for sure. But a legit broker is going to try to convince you to buy a policy that has the definition of own occupation, goes for the entire term of the policy and they're trying to keep you financially healthy. So trust me on that. The tax implications are the same. All right, again, I'm dumping a lot of stuff on you and I've covered a bunch of this. I'm going to Probably covered it all. I would just say this that this is a significant investment. Whether you're buying a group policy for your team you and your team or you're buying an individual policy. I'm biased again, but I think it's worth talking to somebody like me and saying here's what I do, here's the variations of the policy the broker is offering me. Could you also, ben, explain what it is I'm buying? Because, again, I don't sell them. I only see the other side and a bunch of this is talked about in the book. All right, this case makes me mad. So it's a real case and so I'll use his name. So Dr Evans came to me and he had a policy with a company called the Standard. The Standard has some of the trickiest for the recording bad policies out there. But I understand why they do it, because they make more money with these policies. What I don't understand is why HR buys them or why the benefit manager buys them. So Dr Evans was an interventional radiologist out at the University of Virginia. He's closer to my age than to most of your age, so he's a board-certified radiologist. He's one of the top experts in the country on interventional radiology. He trains the residents, trains the fellows. He never got a certificate in interventional radiology because that wasn't available when he was training and that certificate didn't come in until well into his career. He didn't need it. No one was asking like where'd you go? They don't ask me where'd you go to law school? Nobody cares, right? No one asked. The policy says oh, let me tell you what was happening to him. It's interventional radiology. Exposed to radiation, he was getting wonky blood results. Interventional radiology exposed to radiation. He was getting wonky blood results. And so his doctors said hmm, we think that you should not be in the IR suite exposing yourself to radiology. Your cumulative years, we believe it's hurting you and that's a valid claim. By the way, it's a valid claim if your doctor says you've got a cardiac condition. If you keep working, you're probably going to have a heart attack and as long as the doctor can back that up, you don't actually need to have a heart attack to have a claim. The insurance company will try to convince you of that. But Ben says no. So he steps out of the interventional radiology suite at the university. His income, of course, goes proportionally down because he's training the residents, but he's not making money for the university anymore. He's training residents. He makes a claim with the standard, and the standard's definition of own occupation is not the usual. Usually it's like what were you doing? What were you doing when you became disabled let's look at that. It said what were you doing? What were you doing when you became disabled? Let's look at that. It said what are you certified in? He said, well, I'm an interventional radiologist. I've been doing interventional radiology for 30 years. I don't even know how to read an x-ray anymore. He told me sort of half-jokingly. And the standard said sorry, you don't have a certification or certificate or anything in interventional radiology. Sorry, you don't have a certification or certificate or anything in interventional radiology. So the definition in our policy of own occupation is whatever you are certified in, you're certified in radiology. And the standard said because you are permitted to read x-rays even though you haven't read x-rays in 30 years really regular x-rays you don't have a claim. And so we fought it, we filed suit, we litigated it and we lost. And you know they're right. My bitch wasn't with I mean, it was with the standard, as I was paid to do. But somebody at the practice he was in had bought this policy and didn't read it, didn't understand it probably was told it's an own-occupation policy because that's like the supreme own-occupation. They go yippee without looking at the definition of own-occupation. I've now seen another standard policy that's worse the definition of own-occupation I think it was a cardiologist was your own occupation is defined as the extent of your license. What was license License is medical doctor. So even though this I think this person was a surgeon of some sort right and could no longer do surgery Not the standard's fault. They sold it, somebody bought it. Some sucker bought it. But the definition of own occupation was only looking at what is your license. You're in your license as a doctor. You could still do doctor stuff in Commonwealth of Virginia, so you are no longer disabled. So no claim there. And in fact honestly I think that was even worse. It was a university policy. So again, somebody's buying this stuff and you would not run into that problem ever if you're buying an individual policy. The other thing I'll say and I think we're coming to the end here, I'm going to take some questions Most association policies they're the most watered down versus AMA, american Bar Association. If you buy a policy through them, it just has to be, because they're taking all commerce. So they're usually more watered down than a group policy is. We can talk about pre-existing conditions. So here's how pre-existing conditions work. You can buy a policy even though you have something going on. But if they ask the question, you got to tell them. If it's a group policy and you got something going on, they never ask the question. You'll still be covered. Usually if you don't make a claim for the first year or something, it'll say six months or 12 months or 18 months. So the strategy there is I have people come to me and they go. I just started working for my new practice eight months ago. I've had a diagnosis of, let's just say, ms for three years, but it's getting worse. I have this policy. What do I do Like? Well, first of all, you don't make any claim until the first 12 months goes by. So you are going to do whatever you can to stick it out and work through the next four months, because otherwise, having made a claim within the first year for a condition that actually started before is you're not going to get coverage. So there are ways, and it's not cheating, it's understanding what the policy says. Now we're always primary patient safety. Secondary, your safety board. You know, whatever your state board regulations are, whatever your insurance like, those are all things that are wrapped up in a discussion with somebody like me. But don't lie, you know applications and claims. They will find it Like, don't lie. And then you had Northwestern. I would say Northwestern like that's the primo. That's, in my opinion, the primo company why they won't insure you unless you're like Superman. All right, you got to be. Got to be totally healthy and young. Then they'll sell you a policy so they have fewer claims, and then they pay the claim. They pay legit claims. Residual disability is interchangeable with partial disability, which means most of the time, if you have something that prevents you from working full-time in your occupation, you can still work part-time. Some policies, though, say if you're working anywhere, then you're not disabled. So again, you have to know as you're planning your life. Most of my conversations with clients like you are about life coaching. It really is. It's a discussion like what are we going to do? We're close to the same age core, what's the next stage of life? Look like, usually with claimant and spouse life coaching. And your strategy would be if you're on disability and you had an opportunity to go work because you're working right, yes, so if you weren't sure whether you could work or not, you talk to somebody like me who's going to read your policy. Sometimes we'll even go to the insurance company. Hey, you paying Mike. He wants to go do this thing. I think it's okay for him to do this thing. What do you all think? Because you don't want to screw it up, you don't want to go and do the thing. Because you don't want to screw it up, you don't want to go and do the thing be wrong and do the thing Like go get another job, get paid, but it violates your individual, your specific policy. And now you're out. Right, you want to get that advice that you can rely on before you make that decision. But usually most policies you can go and work. I've got guys and gals. I talked to a fellow I have a really fortunate life A guy I talked to last week. He was a Vietnamese boat person, rescued. He and his family escaped Vietnam, rescued by a Red Cross of Germany A fantastic life story. And he's a dentist, he's an orthodontist, but he's got something going on and he's dropping stuff into people's lungs and so he's like well, I'm going to figure out what I'm going to do next. I'm going to take classes and I'm going to go learn how to teach. So usually you can do that and, as a matter of life coaching, ben believes it is better to be productive to have something to go and do each day, to make some money, to put energy into the world right and have the world pay you for that, than to not. But sometimes you just have to be careful and you talk to somebody like me for advice. All right, again, I don't sell this stuff. I love White Coat Investor. I think they have a lot of great information you may have had. I can't remember if you all had somebody speak here, but just so you know, there are brokers who specialize in the healthcare industry. They understand these policies, they understand everything I've just said. They probably haven't looked at claims, but their specialty is you aims, but their specialty is you men and women, right? So, finding somebody who's got that expertise, whether it's selling to you individually or selling to you because you're trying to protect your teammates out there at the practice. If you take a picture of that, you will get my contact info if you would like. I have 40 copies enough copies of our new book. And I have no idea what time it is because usually they give me a countdown timer because they know I like to talk. But I'm happy to take questions if we have time, because Kevin will tell us.
Speaker 1:Does anybody have any questions for Mike or me? Perfect, yeah.
Speaker 2:One here is if you have multiple policies, do they all pay when you go on disability, and is there a limit to the number of policies you can have?
Speaker 1:That's two. Yeah, that is two questions. Usually when you're buying a policy, they want to know how much money do you make? How many other policies do you have? They don't want to incentivize you to not work. Okay, so there is that. Again, you have to fully disclose what other policies you have.
Speaker 1:Every policy is different, but most good policies you can stack, stack, stack. Okay, meaning if you've got three individual policies because you bought one at 23, maybe you bought another one at 30, maybe you bought another one because the broker sold it to you at 40, stack, stack, stack. A lot of the individual policies will say something like hey, if you're, if here's, excuse me, all the group policies will say but if you have like an AMA American Medical Association, american Dental Association policy and you get paid under both, like, we're going to reduce what we pay you. So it's in the part of the policy called other income, other income, and that's what you need to understand. And before you buy it you ask a lot of questions, but usually you cannot recover. Nobody will pay you more than what you were making at the time you became disabled.
Speaker 2:These are all from the audience, they're just my own. Next one here you might have touched on a bit, but you mentioned making sure finances were in order before submitting the claim and how that could affect it. Could you talk more about that how finances can affect it?
Speaker 1:I just mean, you know I'm going to assume most people are running legit practices, they're accounting for their money, right? They're reporting to the IRS, right? Just know that they will strip you naked and go through your finances, and so you better not be misrepresenting what you're making, particularly if you have some sort of a group policy and your income is variable. Most individual policies are paying you a flat rate like $6,000, $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 a month, and so they're not really looking at whether you are making what you say you are making. They want to know that you're working. They will ask for your insurance billing codes to make sure that if you say that you're an endodontist, that you are doing endodontist-like procedures. So again, the basic principle is don't misrepresent, they will find it. They will find it. So if you see for service, you don't accept the participation. But then you want to be proactive. Yes, so I don't understand that question, maybe because I'm not in your space. So tell me what they. What is your name? Ryan, ryan? Yes, sir Ryan. Good, that's a great business, I understand. Okay, you know.
Speaker 1:I now understand the question. Yes, I don't have those dental codes, but you have a CPA, you have a bookkeeper, you have clean records. The number of dollars that you're reporting on the spreadsheet of how many patients I saw this month matches what you're telling the IRS you made. So, yes, they understand. There's people like you, like, hey, really smart entrepreneurs, who are sick and tired of the insurance system, the health insurance system, and want to become wealthy and do what you're doing. Like I get that right. They understand that. So, yes, so yes, we're always going to say it's the insurance system, because that's 99%. Like you're in the 1%, your practice is in the 1%. If you're doing it that way, all I'm saying is all those records have to match up. I mean, if you have a claim, you sell them. I don't do it that way. I don't do it the way the rest of the world I'm a renegade. They go okay, but now let's see your tax returns and everything has to match up. Yeah, does that help? Is that Somewhat? But if you have multiple doctors in your office, sure. If nobody is actually working for you, yeah, they can't money you. It just makes it more complicated.
Speaker 1:Life coaching you would rather live a complicated life where you are wealthy and doing what you want to do and supporting your family and living the life right. And with that entrepreneurship comes things that normal people don't do. Nfl referees train harder than high school referees they do, so it just muddy. It doesn't muddy the water, it just makes, makes it more important that everything is accurate and you just know if you're going to have a claim it's going to be a little bit of a pain in the butt. It's a pain in the butt when no-transcript and they want to see everything. It's a pain in the butt if you get audited by the IRS or the state or something right. Entrepreneurs live with that because we want to live a life up here. It's Ben on life.
Speaker 2:Excuse me another one for Ben. Are physicians typically receptive to hearing a lawyer's advice about improving the documentation for a claim?
Speaker 1:My guys, I mean, are physicians typically receptive? Yes, 100%. Because I tell them horror stories about the guy who goes to his friend the high-end cosmetic plastic surgeon, to his friend the high-end cosmetic plastic surgeon, who's got a great practice and a world-wide reputation for what he did, for the work he did. Who went to his I think neurology friend and I'm like, show me the records. We don't have any. I went to Buzz because Buzz is my buddy and Buzz could fix me. I'm like that's dumb shit. We can't make a claim until later. So they're receptive because, you know, most professionals who are good at what they do in the world have relied and part of the reason they got to where they are is that they have relied on expertise. They find somebody they can trust. You're in your network, like who's a financial planner, who's a good insurance broker, who's a good excess insurance broker, who's a good lawyer, who makes sense, and so, yes, you all, we all, I think in this entrepreneurial world we develop our team. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Once you're on a claim and your situation doesn't change, can the insurance company change their minds and stop payments?
Speaker 1:I've sent seven kids to university based upon that. Yes, they stop payments. Here's how that works Usually, when you're on a claim, in the beginning of the claim they're getting monthly they're sending you 400 pieces of paper. And the real reason they're doing that? They hope you get tired and just go away. They're not trying to catch you in a lie, they just hope you get tired and just go away the longer you're on claim. So our folks who are on claim for years usually there's an annual update that we give them and, yes, so we have people like you know, I'm on claim with the Hartford for 15 years and now they sent it to a new doctor who looked at my medical records, disavowed the fact that Hartford's been paying me for the same condition for 15 years and said now I can work and I haven't even been in the workplace. That's where Ben makes his money, so they're not supposed to, but they do Again.
Speaker 2:Finance my kids' education, yeah, First of all, I've asked this question when I was a resident.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Speaking for them. I think everybody in this room would tell you the insurance when I was a resident didn't understand it all.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What would it take for a resident or somebody just starting a business to talk to you to present? Hey, these are the insurance policies that are getting presented. Is that an hour-long process for you. Are we paying you for an hour? How do they make it so that they know that they're doing the right thing?
Speaker 1:Yes. So that simple question of I've got these three choices of policies, that's an hour, someone says. And I heard your talk in Boston and somebody asked a question. And if you say that secret code, the deal is, you make sure lunch shows up in my office, we do a Zoom call and I teach you and then you write me a nice review and you tell your friends Because, again, I make my money when they deny claims. So that's what it would you know, and most of my friends in the space work that way. Look, I love talking. If you could, if you can sort of get the vibe.
Speaker 1:I love helping people, inspiring them. I love working with young people in any professions, like how do I choose what school to go to, how do I make decisions in the industry, how do I move up in the industry? And that question, I think, is very important. So I will do anything I can to help somebody. I get to look at a lot of really complicated, interesting things. I'm doing some of the most interesting work in my 42-year career. It's just fun talking to you guys and I learn so much every day about your lives and your concerns and I fix stuff.
Speaker 1:I help people make decisions. When something bad has happened to them, I help them figure it out so they can go on to their next stage of life. Part of that is legal. Part of that is legal. Part of that is just philosophical that you have one life to live. It's meant to be lived in your joy and happiness. It's not meant to be lived in misery, don't? It's not meant to be lived in misery. Don't listen to what the rest of the world who's billing insurance companies? Like heck with that. Like screw that right. Let's build something that's worked for us and our family.
Speaker 1:I'd be more than happy to talk to any of your association residents, do a webinar, anything like that, because it just may. I think the more energy you put into the world, the more the world sends you back. Does that make sense? I'm the most reasonable. I love kicking the butts of insurance companies. So all of our income is so-called contingent fee. We get paid if we get money back out of the insurance company and we're proud of the work that we do. We're really good, our team is awesome and I love doing stuff like this because I think every one of you now I guarantee you like this week you're going to go back and look at your policy, and you're just going to look at it and try to understand it.
Speaker 1:If you're in this room and you're looking at policy, I would say this too If you want to get on a Zoom call with me, you want me to look at your stuff? Just say hey, I was in the room. I came there on the last day during the lunchtime talk. I was in the room and I will help you. I will do it. You buy me a salad, we'll sit down over lunch. So if you go to lunchwithbencom I'm a marketer, I'm a marketer at heart. Lunch with bencom, you'll see what we do and I talk to people every single week and my team is going to go. What did you tell them in Boston? I said well, I got excited.
Speaker 2:Yes, If you're willing. Which are good companies and which companies should you avoid?
Speaker 1:Well, look, I think so. Northwestern for sure, I would talk to Northwestern for individual policy. I don't think that there's a company to avoid because they all have different flavors of policies, right? And my thing is with HR who buys the C-level, c like as in the letter, c-level policy. So you know, there are companies that go through periods where they do dirty stuff, they get exposed. I think they're all. Here's God's honest truth. They're all overworked. Their people and their systems are often poor. Many of them, I think, are still working from home with legacy technology and our team holds their feet to the fire, makes them play by the rules. Our team is really, really good and that's how we do it. So I wouldn't say a company is bad because they could have a really good policy, just that HR didn't buy that really good policy.
Speaker 2:Okay, time for one more. If you have chronic pain, ask him about you?
Speaker 1:got a question for him, Mike.
Speaker 2:Is the NFL rigged for the Chiefs? Yes, okay, if you have chronic pain that is getting worse but doctors can't find a definitive cause or diagnosis, can I make a successful claim?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so those are the hardest claims to make. The insurance company is looking for objective scientific evidence as much as they can. In fact, some policies require objective scientific evidence as much as they can. In fact, some policies require objective evidence whatever that is positive MRI, some policies will limit you to. They'll pay that claim, but they may have a self-reported condition limitation. So they'll pay it for only two years and, like the mental and nervous condition, they will try to drop your claim into that. You've got an MRI that's a little bit wonky but it doesn't show a radiculopathy. We'll call that a self-reported claim. But, yes, we get people paid. How do you prove that Consistency? So migraines, migraines, right, how do you prove a migraine? Well, are you seeing the right docs? Are you seeing a specialist? Are you doing? I've had cases where you're doing really high-end, almost experimental medicine to be relieved of migraine pain but you can't see anything. If I looked at you, you looked perfectly fine. Those are challenging. We've gotten people on claim for that. It's just harder. Yeah, keeping personal diaries, friends and family statements. Yes, ma'am, if you're diagnosed with chronic disease and you haven't been to multiple doctors and had multiple surgeries and you don't want to have any more surgical injections. Do they have a link against you? If you said you know like I'm more present, I have a high quality of life, everything is much better. Do you have to? That's a great question. So a variation of that question is if a surgery would fix it, do I have to do the surgery? The answer is absolutely no. There's a risk in every surgery. You have to, in all these policies, mike said be under the care of a physician. Now that physician could say, look, there's nothing else to do. And if that's a scientifically valid opinion by that doctor, right then we will work to uphold that. We're still probably going to get you to see that doc once a year and there may be things. We're sending you to a functional capacity exam, things like that. We're trying to get as objective measurements we can. If it's a cognitive issue, we'll send that. We're trying to get as objective a measurement as we can. If it's a cognitive issue, we'll send you for a neuropsychological evaluation, which also is like you talk about, a pain in the butt. That's a long task but that's the way. It's almost MRI-ish in terms of proving cognitive decline of any way shape or form. So for you all, if you can't hear or process hearing, if you can't process vision, if you have any loss of manual dexterity, if you can't sit or stand all day, of all these patients without neck pain, like all of those things, are just, we're trying to get as much scientific proof that, a you have it, it's true, and B it limits you. I will say this, I will say this In representing doctors the card that I play out of my back pocket, my red card, is patient safety.
Speaker 1:Like I had a guy once. He's a surgeon. He had a what do you call it internal defibrillator implanted. His team said this thing is probably never going to go off, but if it does go off, it'll be because you need it. The car internal defibrillator implanted. His team said this thing is probably never going to go off, but if it does go off, it'll be because you need it, it'll save your life. And so the insurance company's like he said it's probably never going to go off. He said okay. I said but would you want him to operate on your child and have it go off in the middle of surgery? They go we, you do a surgery, and now, over 20 years I say we've seen it all. But every couple of months I get surprised and we see something that just you know. I've seen more diseases, more people with conditions that are the one in three million Stiff person syndrome, like anybody, like it's really really rare. I'm blessed I have an interesting job. Any others? Are we out of time, are we?
Speaker 2:kicking this out. I think we're getting close on time. Do you have the CE code on the next slide? If not, I can give it out.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's it, and then please can give it out. Yes, that's it. And then please, mike, can you in my black bag there? I do not want to take these back in the bag, so please come up. It has my contact information If you're, you know when it's up on Amazon, if you say, hey, this is a pretty smart book, I would really appreciate that and, again, I'm happy to talk to anybody. I'll be here, but if you want to get on a Zoom call or something, we'll do that. So we'll just I'll put these up here, appreciate it. Thank you for coming on the last day. That's a wrap for today's episode of the Renegade Lawyer Podcast. If you found this episode valuable, do me a favor subscribe, leave a review and share this with a fellow lawyer who needs to hear it For more powerful strategies on marketing, practice, growth and taking control of your legal career. Head over to greatlegalmarketingcom. You can also find us on LinkedIn Search for Great Legal Marketing and Benjamin Glass to connect. Stay tuned.
