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The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
The root cause of all lawyers' problems is financial stress. Financial stress holds you back from getting the right people on the bus, running the right systems, and being able to only do work for clients you want to work with. Financial stress keeps you in the office on nights and weekends, often doing work you hate for people you don't like, and doing that work alone.
(Yes, you have permission to do only work you like doing and doing it with people you like working with.)
The money stress is not because the lawyers are bad lawyers or bad people. In fact, most lawyers are good at the lawyering part and they are good people.
The money stress is caused by the general lack of both business skills and an entrepreneurial mindset.
Thus, good lawyers who are good people get caught up and slowed down in bringing their gifts to the world. Their families, teams, clients, and communities are not well-served because you can't serve others at your top level when you are constantly worrying about money.
We can blame the law schools and the elites of the profession who are running bar organizations, but to blame anyone else for your own woes is a loser's game. It is, in itself, a restrictive, narrow, mindset that will keep you from ever seeing, let alone experiencing, a better future.
Lawyers need to be in rooms with other entrepreneurs. They need to hang with people who won't tell you that your dreams are too big or that "they" or "the system "won't allow you to achieve them. They need to be in rooms where people will be in their ear telling them that their dreams are too small.
Get in better rooms. That would be the first step.
Second step, ignore every piece of advice any general organized bar is giving about how to make your firm or your life better.
The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
PR Power Moves: How Lawyers Can Win Media Attention and Stand Out!
🚀 Want to be the lawyer the media can’t ignore?
Too many attorneys sit back and wait for PR opportunities to fall into their lap—but not after this episode! 🎙️
Join Ben Glass and PR powerhouse Melanie Rembrandt as they break down the exact steps to get featured in major media, build authority, and attract high-value clients—without spending a dime on ads.
🔥 Inside this episode:
✅ Why PR is your secret weapon for law firm growth
✅ How to pitch the media (without sounding desperate)
✅ The power of one phone call—how a simple outreach can land you in top publications
✅ Proven strategies to stand out, get quoted, and build lasting relationships with journalists
If you’re ready to ditch invisibility and start making headlines, this is the episode you’ve been waiting for. Hit play now! 🎧💡
Ben Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury and long-term disability insurance attorney in Fairfax, VA. Since 2005, Ben Glass and Great Legal Marketing have been helping solo and small firm lawyers make more money, get more clients and still get home in time for dinner. We call this TheGLMTribe.com
What Makes The GLM Tribe Special?
In short, we are the only organization within the "business builder for lawyers" space that is led by two practicing lawyers.
One thing we're sure you've noticed is that despite the variety of options within our space, no one else is mixing
the actual practice of law with business building in the way that we are.
There are no other organizations who understand the highs and lows of running a small law firm and are engaged in talking to real clients. That is what sets GLM apart from every other organization, and it is why we have had loyal members that have been with us for two-decades.
Find out which media you want to be in and then who writes for that, who are the producers, who are the reporters. Find out who they are. All that information is available online and then you can actually call them up on the phone and, instead of emailing or texting or anything else, call them up on the phone and introduce yourself.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the Renegade Lawyer Podcast where, as you know, each episode I get to interview people inside and outside of legal who are making a ding in the world. Today it's going to be a great interview A good friend of mine, longtime friend from the Dan Kenney world, Melanie Rembrandt. Melanie is the founder of Rembrandt Communications. She's an award-winning publicist, SEO content strategist, ghostwriter and speaker. She's most well-known for PR, getting publicity, helping you get publicity, teaching people like us like how do we talk to reporters? How do we get publicity? How does that guy get on CNN and get interviewed when I don't? So I'm going to talk to Melanie about all these issues and opportunities that we have. Melanie, thanks for getting on the episode today. Thanks for taking out some time to be with us.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2:Yes, we had a little technology fun as we begin this. But you know, like many entrepreneurs, you kind of have a hard start. Story right, I did some research. I lay off at a point in the past that at the time I'm sure maybe seemed dark, but it really led to opportunity. So let's start there. Tell us a little bit about your journey from layoff to entrepreneur.
Speaker 1:Of course. Well, I was working for two different tech companies. First time I got laid off, went to a second tech company. They brought me in the office, surprised me and said I'm sorry, melanie, we've got to lay you off. And I was thinking what am I going to do? So I quick turned around and said I know why don't you just hire me as a consultant? Then you won't have to pay employee benefits and you'll actually save some money in the process and there won't be any hassle. So instead of leaving the office without a job, I left with a new business and went straight to the attorney's office to get it all licensed and set up. Many years later, I still have my own business. So I was kind of pushed off the ledge.
Speaker 2:Was your new business in the PR marketing space or was this in some technology weird.
Speaker 1:No, it was Rembrandt Communications, the business I have now. I was doing public relations and writing for the tech companies.
Speaker 2:Talk to us, because I think our market here, our listeners, are solo and small firm lawyers across the country serving diverse consumer practice areas. Largely, pr is not something. So PR, if it comes up at all, is random. Some reporter reaches out to a lawyer because that reporter's got a story and is trying to get five experts to talk, but there's not a lot of intentional developing and cultivating of sources for lawyers. So let's talk first about the importance of PR and then I really want to dig deeper into how lawyers can create more opportunities for themselves to play in this media.
Speaker 1:Well, I think a lot of people. The first thing they think of when they hear PR is press release, send out a press release. But public relations is so much more. It's actually all the communications you have internally with your team and externally. It is about getting the right message out to the right people at the right time. And it does give you a competitive edge because when other people are talking about you get third-party credibility you can't get anywhere else. And I'm not talking about advertising placements, that's advertising. This is a, you know, credible media venue that your audience pays attention to, that is writing about you, talking about you, etc. So it gives you a competitive edge right there because you have third-party credibility. Because if you're mentioned in some media venue and your competition is not, you're going to get the attention from that and you're not paying for it. And it can go from a little story all over the world within minutes because of the web. Public relations is very important and if you're not using it, you're missing out.
Speaker 2:And again, I think, melanie, that most lawyers sort of sit back and wait for this to happen to them, but you work on the other side of that coin. You are helping make this happen for lawyers and other businesses, small and large. Talk to us a little bit about what a lawyer is running a practice. It's got a citywide, regional-wide presence. What can he or she be doing to be able to play in the public relations world?
Speaker 1:Well, it's very important to get to know local media venues. First of all, you've got to figure out why you are unique. Why should someone come to see you rather than all the other attorneys in the area? You've got to have your story together, what you specialize in your background, basically your elevator pitch. You need to be proactive and do some research. Find out which media you want to be in and then who writes for that, who are the producers, who are the reporters? Find out who they are. All that information is available online and then you can actually call them up on the phone and, instead of emailing or texting or anything else, call them up on the phone and introduce yourself.
Speaker 1:You might not get through to some people. You can leave a message. Others you might get through to some people. You can leave a message. Others you might get through to and you can introduce yourself. Tell them. You know what you specialize in and also, if there's some kind of news story going on that you can give your opinion or insights on, you can tell them about that and it might not lead to anything, but you are building a relationship. On the other hand, I've had people just make one call and it turned into a feature story in the front of the local newspaper. You have to be proactive, but you have to have that research in advance and know what you're going to say. That will make you stand out. That's interesting to them because they want interesting, valuable information to share with their audience.
Speaker 2:So a great question that we teach lawyers to ask is what can I do for you? First? It's the question that I asked you before we went live how can this be a win for you? This episode of the podcast it would seem to be with the diversity of media, with everybody is a reporter now with their cell phone a huge undertaking. At Great Legal Marketing we talk a lot about building systems that others can replicate. Suggest a way, if you can that a lawyer who is okay, they listen to this podcast. That's a really good idea. I do want to become sort of famous to the world of the local media. One way to do it is to sit down at your laptop for a couple hours and just start collecting.
Speaker 1:Well, there are plenty of services out there, but you want to be very targeted. That is how you get media attention. Everyone else is sending out massive distributions of press releases and they're not going to stand out. You can hire a virtual assistant. Do the research on all the local media venues. Go to each of these particular news media, find out the business, reporters or whatever industry you focus on. Have a virtual assistant make a whole Excel spreadsheet for you with the phone number and then all you have to do is go through and call you. The attorney can probably get through better to the media than a publicist, because they like to talk to the small business owner, the entrepreneur, the attorney directly and get it right from the horse's mouth. So you can have somebody else do all this research work, but you're the one that's going to have to create the relationship with the media. Member.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's interesting that they're and I think we often forget this like the media. Their job is hard because today it's like 24-7 produce, produce, produce in competition with everybody else, right, and they are. They are looking for that angle, they are on deadline. They too are cultivating, I guess, their own CRM of of reliable, reliable local and regional sources. And then you suggested the reach out be phone call, so is that, I take it, you feel that's more effective than emailing someone just to say hi, this is Ben and I'm a personal injury lawyer in Fairfax, virginia.
Speaker 1:Well, that's just it. Everyone is using email or text because it's easy and simple, but when you call someone you're standing out. So I would call and then follow up with an email. But it's amazing what one phone call can do, because no one else is doing it. A phone call works best.
Speaker 2:Do you suggest now going deeper, not only finding, for example, the media who are reporting in the local courts or the local criminal police, beat or whatever who are reporting in the local courts or the local criminal police beat or whatever, but then sort of trying to figure out what's hot now and what's the tip, the angle, the suggestion, the piece that I can give somebody that may be different from everyone else who's seeking the media, everyone.
Speaker 2:This is Ben, and I just want to take a moment out of the podcast to tell you about my good friend, kia Arian and her company, zyne. Kia and I have known each other for almost 20 years and Zyne is a brand development agency that helps solo and small firm lawyers and great legal marketing members in particular figure out what to say to the people they want most as clients and how to say it in a way that creates true lifelong connections with these clients. Kia has three signature programs the Brand Discovery Intensive, the Newsletter Program and the Shock and Awe Box Marketing, and if you've followed us for any length of time, listened to the podcast or hung out with Great Legal Marketing, you know what these programs are all about Kia's promise they will help you get more clients who love you, who will stay with you and who will tell others about you. Go find out more about Kia at zinemarketingcom that's Z-I-N-E zinemarketingcom and tell her that you heard about Zine on the Renegade Lawyer Podcast. All right. Now back to this episode.
Speaker 1:Well, when you do the research with the VA, have that person look at what each reporter, producer, director writes about or talks about. You want to know exactly what kind of news they're interested in. And this is kind of time consuming because you have to target your message to each particular reporter or media person for what they want. That's why a lot of people hire me, because it is time consuming. But once you have that information you'll know oh, this news story came out, this particular reporter writes about this. You put the two together like three top reasons not to call your attorney when X happens because of this fire in downtown. Whatever, you'll know because we'll already have that research behind you. So as soon as you see the news coming out you'll know okay, this reporter covers this. This is the angle I need to take, so it's all preparation.
Speaker 2:And then in terms of sort of tracking, like we're all inundated with way too much inputs anyway today and we're familiar with things like Google alerts just browsing maybe even your local media's social media presence right, Because they're going to highlight stories that they're working on. But do you have other sort of efficient ways of either the lawyer or the lawyer's VA being able to keep up with? Oh, here's my list of people. Here's what they're writing about now, so that you can come and insert the bonus for them. How are people who are doing this on their own, or even how's an agency doing?
Speaker 1:it. There are services out there that cover all of this. There's plenty of media list services, but personally I've used most of them and I stick to a plain old Excel spreadsheet. That's what works for me. It's easy. I can pull it up, see exactly who my top media contacts are. It really just depends on you and what works best for you, but you can just do some research on the different services that are available and see what works best.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, this is Ben and I just want to take a moment out of the podcast to tell you about my good friend, kia Arian and her company, zyne. Kia and I have known each other for almost 20 years and Zyne is a brand development agency that helps solo and small firm lawyers, and great legal marketing members in particular, figure out what to say to the people they want most as clients and how to say it in a way that creates true lifelong connections with these clients. Kia has three signature programs the Brand Discovery Intensive, the Newsletter Program and the Shock and Awe Box Marketing. And if you've followed us for any length of time, listened to the podcast or hung out with Great Legal Marketing, you know what these programs are all about. Kia's promise they will help you get more clients who love you, who will stay with you and who will tell others about you. Go find out more about Kia at ZainMarketingcom that's Z-I-N-E ZainMarketingcom and tell her that you heard about Zain on the Renegade Lawyer Podcast.
Speaker 2:All right now back to this episode. Every once in a while I see reference, hear reference, to the HARO Help a Reporter Out. Do these things still exist? Are they useful? I don't even know if they're paid or free anymore. Are these the types of tools that lawyers running small practices can and should be using?
Speaker 1:They can, but I don't think they would have the time because those different services. Harrow was bought out by another company. They're still available and out there, but you really have to comb through it. A lot of times they don't say what the media venue is, so you could be sending in your pitch or information and not even know what it's for. It might not be worth your time and effort. You might have a virtual assistant, but if you really want to save time and effort, you just really have to target. Who are you going after? What message do they want? What value do I have to provide? Get on the phone and do follow-up. That is the process that works the best.
Speaker 2:Take us inside the mind of a reporter, of a reporter. What is running through their head in a day, and how can I best be of service and not be an annoying pass to them.
Speaker 1:The one thing they're thinking about is deadline. Who can get me everything I need within? My boss gave me five hours. They want photos. They're going to want bios. You need to have all of that ready to go on a particular website that you can just turn to. Speed is huge, even if you don't have as great a story as your competitor. If you get the information to them first, they love you. And if it's organized and it's not about you, it's about their target market. What does their target market want to know? What news are they getting across?
Speaker 2:If you think about that, you have to think about what they want, what information you can provide as quickly as possible. Do you help, then, in sort of the repurposing? So let's say I do get quoted, I do, there's a mention someplace, or maybe they send a camera crew over, like, let's talk for a minute about the ways that a lawyer can help repurpose, get leverage, use 20 different ways, something that they have done with a reporter. Reporter has quoted them as an expert.
Speaker 1:Well, as soon as you start doing public relations, you want to have the back end ready to go.
Speaker 1:You want to have a report, a website landing page, something you can refer them to, top tips, a handout, something that you can refer them to, top tips, a handout, something that you can refer them to, and that's your call to action at the end of whatever you're talking about, because you know usually they'll give a website or what have you, so you've got to have that all prepared in advance, exactly what you want to happen.
Speaker 1:Then after it, the presentation. And one big thing too if a media member says they're going to do a story about you, do not publicize it until it actually happens, because you will be very embarrassed if it doesn't go live, and you told everyone about it. So, anyway, after it goes live, yes, you want to think about all the different ways you can use that media clip. Obviously, you can do reprints. If you have permission. Send them out, post them on your office, have them framed, used in your marketing materials online I help coordinate all of that. You can turn it into other articles, blogs, etc. And also, once you start building this buzz, sometimes other media members are interested and start calling you.
Speaker 2:When, let's say, in your local town there's something newsworthy happens, that you are indeed a subject matter expert, and maybe the media is sort of even missing the point that you can make, do you then go to one and say, hey, I've got some exclusive ideas that nobody else is thinking about. What's the best strategy there?
Speaker 1:You go after your targeted media member. If you offer an exclusive to more than one reporter, you're going to get blacklisted. They do not like that at all. Find out. So you first contact your top media member. Find out for sure they're not interested. Move on to the second one. I've done that and it went all the way down to the last person on my list. But do not offer an exclusive to two media members at the same time. It will come back and get you.
Speaker 2:And is there value in saying I'm offering this to you exclusively?
Speaker 1:Yes, before you do a press release or something like that, you can say hey, we are announcing this news, I would like to offer you the exclusive on it. I need a response by XYZ, and that's how you can get a lot of stories, because they love that. They get the exclusive. So that all goes in the process. Before you even start, you want to think about who you want to offer an exclusive to, what news you're getting out there and what happens after the news goes live. So it's a whole process.
Speaker 2:Give us some tips on dealing with that. For example, I've heard you always try to speak in 10-second soundbites because and you always try to think about well, if the only thing they publish is the last 10 seconds, will I sound like an idiot or will I sound smart? How do you deal with actual live media?
Speaker 1:Well, hopefully you have talking points that you've worked through with someone like me or an office associate or someone in your desk. When the reporter calls and someone says, hey, so-and-so from media is on the line, just say Tom, I'll call them back in five minutes. This gives you time to breathe, get it together, get your talking points out, call them back because they're waiting for your call and then you can go through the talking points that you've already rehearsed. You think in the back of your mind what is going to provide value, what is really a great piece of information that they're going to care about. If you go about that route, instead of thinking, oh, what am I going to say that I don't sound dumb and I want to get this across, Think about the value you provide, because if you provide enough value in your responses, people are going to care and pay attention.
Speaker 2:And I take it because what you've described is a lot of work that it's probably better to be sort of very niched in terms of building your media list and building the things you're actually going to take time, effort to go and to do, rather than hey, I'm a personal injury lawyer, so I comment anything from a dog bite to someone falling off a ladder. Would that be right?
Speaker 1:It is because you want to be very specific and stand out. It'd be the same information you use in your marketing. You have some kind of unique selling proposition that sets you apart and that should be the same branding that carries you across your public relations, because when your news goes live, it goes back to all your marketing pieces, so that needs to be coherent and go together. So, yes, you don't want to confuse people either. So if you have one major thing that stands out, that's what you want to promote.
Speaker 2:You can be famous to a small pond and get a lot out of that.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Hey, this is Ben and I just want to butt in here during the podcast to give a shout out to one of our major supporters of the Renegade Lawyer podcast, my good friend, jonathan Hawkins. Jonathan is a part of our in-person mastermind group but, more importantly, he's the founder of Law Firm GC, which you can find at yourlawfirmgccom, and Jonathan serves as outside general counsel for law firms. His clients are lawyers. He represents lawyers and law firms from formation to dissolution and everything in between. Jonathan helps attorneys and law firm owners identify, understand and navigate the legal, business and ethics-related issues. And you know, you'd think that lawyers would know all this, but they don't. They're so busy running their own practices. They're experts in their own niche and Jonathan is a guy who's going to make sure you don't make any silly mistakes informing your partnerships, dissolving your firm, firing lawyers, hiring lawyers, setting compensation schemes everything that a lot of us never think about until it's way too late.
Speaker 2:We want to thank Jonathan for being a big supporter of the podcast. Invite you to go check him out at yourlawfirmgccom. That's yourlawfirmgccom. Yes, jonathan will talk to you, no matter where you are in the country. All right now back to this episode. Tell us about Rembrandt Communications. Talk to us a little bit, because most of us have not done any of this at all and most have never dealt with a communications agency, a PR agency. They just haven't. So what does that world look like in terms of both? What services companies like yours can provide? How does the compensation structure generally work? We're curious about that.
Speaker 1:Well, public relations firms go from small mom and pop shops all the way up to Fortune 500 companies, huge organizations. Usually it can be very inexpensive if you hire someone off of Upwork or Fiverr all the way up to at least $25,000 a month retainer at a big firm. You have to be careful, though. With the big firm you say, oh, I'm spending all the money and getting a big firm. If you're not a big name, you might end up working with the intern and not know it. And and getting a big firm If you're not a big name, you might end up working with the intern and not know it and be paying all these fees.
Speaker 1:So you want to match the agency services to what you need. So many people have come to me and they lost money because they didn't know what they were getting. And public relations is difficult because we can't really promise media attention unless you're paying for it. I do a lot of organic placements where they don't pay for it, but you need to make sure the communications are open. You need to have a way out of your contract if you're not happy with the results and really be transparent about what you're getting and what you're paying for.
Speaker 2:You have written the book Simple Publicity, which folks can get, I assume, off of Amazon, or maybe directly from you. Publicity which folks can get, I assume off of Amazon, or maybe directly from you. Who is your avatar? Who do you get excited about? When either individual or size of company is calling you and say Melanie, I heard about you or I read about you or I read your book and I would love to talk to you about being a client. So who's the perfect avatar for you?
Speaker 1:I love small business owners who fought their way to the top and now they're successful and they have a really unique story to tell and somehow they help other people. So if I find someone like that, it's great, because I want to share their information and I get excited about that. So I've worked with very small companies up to celebrities and big CEOs. It just depends on what their story is, and if it's a good one that I know I can promote, I love that.
Speaker 2:Melanie, this has been great. If folks want to find out more about you, where should they go? And I'm sure, like many Dan Kennedy trained marketers, you have a free offer for them.
Speaker 1:They can go to my site rembrandtwritescom. It's Rembrandt, just like the painter or the toothpaste, and if they sign up for my newsletter they can get my free tip. It's called Five Must have Tips for your Next Media Interview so you can ace your next media interview and it's real quick and easy and I provide a monthly newsletter there to videos, blogs, information, just to help you deal with the media and content and getting the right message out there.
Speaker 2:Last question what's next for you? We're recording this early 2025. What does the year look like for you?
Speaker 1:I am focusing on a lot of new content. I have a new book coming out that I wrote with Dan Kennedy I'm very excited about, and I'm focusing a lot on just helping people get through AI, because it's very straight and stern and it doesn't have one thing that it needs to sell, which is emotional intelligence, because people like to do business with those they know, love, like and trust, and the only way you can get that is through providing your stories, your thoughts, your personality, and AI doesn't know what's going on out there, so you have to provide that in order to sell with your content. So I'm focusing on that and telling a lot of people about it because it's so important, because you can use AI, but you also have to have EI with it.
Speaker 2:I think you're exactly right. I did a training inside the office for our team and I said AI can do a lot of stuff Like. It's really smart, it can accumulate a lot, it can write really fast, it can type faster than you can. It is not a human. I think that's exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, particularly in the small biz world, small law firms whether you're B2B or B2C, you're talking to a human being and the other side is making a buying decision. We have to be careful about that. I think that the top lawyer marketers they understand the psychology of marketing writ large so that wherever the media is PR website, articles, blogs, print, whatever there is that human persuasion element. That's really a highly refined skill and you are really really good at that. Thank you for reminding us of that, because it's easy for lawyers to whip out a credit card and buy ads. Now it's easy for lawyers to go on ChatGPT or someplace else and get it to write for them. You still need to think. Whether you're writing a brief, an ad or an email, you still need to think a little bit and I think people are skipping that step and I think that's what you're talking about here, and it'll be a very interesting 2025 for all of us.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, ben. Yes, and if you don't skip that step and you add the emotional intelligence, you're going to go way above the competition.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. Well, look, my friend, it was great to chat with you today. We will put the website address again in the notes. People, you can get on Melanie's list. You should get on her list just to read and see how she does email and the language and headlines and how she sets all this stuff up Very smart. So there's like three levels of learning you can do if you get on Melanie's email list and she'll send you her free report and it's great. It's been great catching up with you, my friend.
Speaker 1:Thanks, ben, you take care. Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2:Talk later. All right, and that's a wrap for today's episode of the Renegade Lawyer Podcast. If you found this episode valuable, do me a favor, subscribe, leave a review and share this with a fellow lawyer who needs to hear it For more powerful strategies on marketing, practice growth and taking control of your legal career. Head over to greatlegalmarketingcom Until next time.
