The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
The root cause of all lawyers' problems is financial stress. Financial stress holds you back from getting the right people on the bus, running the right systems, and being able to only do work for clients you want to work with. Financial stress keeps you in the office on nights and weekends, often doing work you hate for people you don't like, and doing that work alone.
(Yes, you have permission to do only work you like doing and doing it with people you like working with.)
The money stress is not because the lawyers are bad lawyers or bad people. In fact, most lawyers are good at the lawyering part and they are good people.
The money stress is caused by the general lack of both business skills and an entrepreneurial mindset.
Thus, good lawyers who are good people get caught up and slowed down in bringing their gifts to the world. Their families, teams, clients, and communities are not well-served because you can't serve others at your top level when you are constantly worrying about money.
We can blame the law schools and the elites of the profession who are running bar organizations, but to blame anyone else for your own woes is a loser's game. It is, in itself, a restrictive, narrow, mindset that will keep you from ever seeing, let alone experiencing, a better future.
Lawyers need to be in rooms with other entrepreneurs. They need to hang with people who won't tell you that your dreams are too big or that "they" or "the system "won't allow you to achieve them. They need to be in rooms where people will be in their ear telling them that their dreams are too small.
Get in better rooms. That would be the first step.
Second step, ignore every piece of advice any general organized bar is giving about how to make your firm or your life better.
The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
Ryan Steward on Transforming Legal Advertising in the Digital Age
Join The Renegade Lawyer Podcast as Ryan Steward of Ace Strategies shares his expertise on digital marketing for law firms. Discover how to elevate your law firm's online presence, the importance of clear messaging, and the latest in SEO and advertising technology. Perfect for legal professionals eager to enhance their marketing approach and drive the right clients to their firm.
This episode is packed with insights to transform your strategy in the ever-evolving digital landscape. Tune in!
Ben Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury and long-term disability insurance attorney in Fairfax, VA. Since 2005, Ben Glass and Great Legal Marketing have been helping solo and small firm lawyers make more money, get more clients and still get home in time for dinner. We call this TheGLMTribe.com
What Makes The GLM Tribe Special?
In short, we are the only organization within the "business builder for lawyers" space that is led by two practicing lawyers.
One thing we're sure you've noticed is that despite the variety of options within our space, no one else is mixing
the actual practice of law with business building in the way that we are.
There are no other organizations who understand the highs and lows of running a small law firm and are engaged in talking to real clients. That is what sets GLM apart from every other organization, and it is why we have had loyal members that have been with us for two-decades.
Talk to us a little bit about this partnership between customer law firm and somebody like you who can make the art of the media, in this case the internet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's definitely a very deep, very tight-knit partnership, because if the ad agency or the vendor isn't getting the messaging correct or writing content about types of cases that the client does not want to receive, then all the work and the budget invested is wasted because the content is wrong. The content has images that are generic, images that are, from you know, just pulled off the internet, rather than real images of the actual employees in the law firm.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Renegade Lawyer Podcast, the show where we ask the questions why aren't more lawyers living flourishing lives and inspiring others? And can you really get wealthy while doing only the work you love with people you like? Many lawyers are. Get ready to hear from your host, ben Glass, the founder of the law firm Ben Glass Law in Fairfax, virginia, and great legal marketing, an organization that helps good people succeed by coaching, inspiring and supporting law firm owners. Join us for today's conversation hey everyone.
Speaker 1:This is ben welcome back to the renegade lawyer podcast, where each episode I get to interview interesting people inside and outside of legal entrepreneurs who are making a ding in the world, and today I've got ryan stewart of ace strategies. Ryan and I met for the first time oh, maybe it was four to six weeks ago. We had a little kind of mini mastermind up in my office a couple of guys who were very interested in digital marketing, the internet, things like that. We sat around for a couple hours and discussed strategies. So I got to meet Ryan and thought, well, let's get him on the program because he's got some great ideas in this really heavy competitive market that we lawyers are in like trying to figure out, how are we going to go spend the next hour, next dollar, in digital marketing. Brian's got a great company. He serves a lot of lawyers, and so, man, thanks for taking some time to be with us on the program today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Ben.
Speaker 1:You know, one of the things that we did when we were up here so there was a lawyer with a firm and we won't name names. It was a pretty famous firm here in the region Good lawyers, very good trial lawyers in a niche and one of the exercises we did is we looked at his website. He wanted us to do that and it was kind of hard. It was like it was was maybe 15 year old, like last time someone touched it it was 15 years ago. And I'm just curious that we just start there, ryan, like when lawyers are thinking about their own website and pondering does it need work? Should I change vendors? What can I do to get more traffic? Like what should they actually be thinking about? How should they analyze their current web properties? I mean.
Speaker 2:It's a big question.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of rabbit holes to go down, but I think the key, most important part is determining messaging and what sets your law firm apart from other law firms that do the exact same type of law that you provide and maybe the exact types of cases that you want to work on and cases that you don't want to work on. And messaging on your website, through the content that's being created, needs to be on point. Without clear, concise messaging and a USP, a unique sales proposition to set yourself apart from other firms, you're kind of shooting in the dark. You can create content and post blogs and advertise till you're blue in the face, but on top of having your content and your messaging solidified, it's about creating good content and doing correct SEO on your website so that when folks are searching for the type of law you practice, they can quickly find your website, understand what it is that you do, understand your unique sales proposition and why you're different and, most importantly, they can navigate through your site very quickly, very easily, from one page to another.
Speaker 1:So that is a lot. That's a lot to chew there. What I hear you saying is that really, before anyone goes and invests in any type of media whether it is a billboard, a TV ad, a print advertising campaign, direct mail campaign or, what we're talking about here, a website digital is they really should have some fundamental education about marketing and differentiation and the psychology of marketing, and then look at this different media to deploy that messaging. And I find a lot of lawyers either skip this discernment process altogether, ryan, or they leave it to the vendor Again. Whether it's a billboard creator back in the old days, you know, a yellow page creator, or today like a landing page or a web creator, they leave it totally to the vendor to kind of figure this out. I think that's a mistake.
Speaker 2:So talk to us a little bit about like this partnership between customer law firm and somebody like you who can make the art of the media, in this case the internet yeah, I think it's definitely a very deep, very tight knit partnership, because if the ad agency or the vendor isn't getting the messaging correct or writing content about types of cases that the client does not want to receive, then all the work and the budget invested is wasted because the content is wrong. The content has images that are generic, images that are, from you know, just pulled off the internet, rather than real images of the actual employees in the law firm, and if you're not doing it carefully, in a step-by-step fashion, you're essentially wasting your budget and you can't get mad at your advertising vendor because you haven't worked with them through the entire process to get what actually you need out of it, which is the right type of client calling your phone, the right type of client in your email box, the right type of client that is filling out form, fills on your website, that is interested in your service. I think one of the other things that we see the biggest issue is advertisers law firms not understanding the difference between awareness advertising and directional advertising. Awareness advertising is going to be like your billboards, your radio, connected TV, streaming television, whereas that is getting your message out there, that is, somebody that has an accident or car accident, isn't going to remember that billboard that was on the side of the interstate. When they have that accident, what that consumer is going to do is go to directional advertising, which is the search engines Google, yahoo, bing and they're going to search for the need they have. Same as if you had a water leak in your office right now, you're probably going to call an emergency plumber because you have a need right now. You're not going to remember that billboard or that radio advertising for that plumber that you heard this morning on your drive to work.
Speaker 2:So, differentiating and using an omni-channel approach using social media, using directional advertising and Google and your website, using billboards and connected and streaming TV, is an all omni-channel approach rather than just doing billboards or just doing SEO or just doing pay-per-click to generate leads.
Speaker 2:And nowadays you have to be in front of the consumer and you have to meet the consumer where they are, whether that's on social, whether that's on Google directional advertising, and you got to be in their face with TV billboards and radio advertising.
Speaker 2:Good thing about that has taken a big turn here recently where, with connected TV, streaming and streaming radio like Pandora and Spotify, you can take your traditional TV commercial or your radio commercial and you can target it towards consumers that have been searching for personal injury attorneys, that has been searching for criminal attorneys that have been searching for personal injury attorneys, that has been searching for criminal attorneys, that have been searching for any type of attorney, or consumers that have been viewing that type of content. If I was hurt in an accident and I was looking at personal injury websites, well, there's most likely that's for a reason because I was in a car accident, motorcycle accident, a truck accident. So now, with this new technology OTT, connected TV and streaming radio you can serve your TV and radio ads directly to the phone, computer and TV of that consumer that has been looking at that type of content. So you can not only take your awareness advertising. Instead of having it on the side of the interstate, now you're putting it directly in the consumer's face.
Speaker 4:That already has been searching or been viewing content related to the philosophy of the art of living your best life parts. You should know that my son, brian, and I built a tribe of like-minded lawyers who are living lives with their own design and creating tremendous value for the world within the structure of a law practice. We invite you to join us at the only membership organization for entrepreneurial lawyers that is run by two full-time practicing attorneys. Check us out at greatlivermarketingcom.
Speaker 1:So where does your company play in this space? Someone comes and they've got TV ads, they've got billboards, they have digital media. Are you in the middle and sort of managing this? Are you helping create TV ads Like, where does Ace Strategies?
Speaker 2:sit. We're all of the above. We're helping define the messaging and define the strategy. We're helping buy and place the media from these over-the-top television companies, the connected TV companies, the streaming TV companies and streaming radio companies and helping place that media companies and streaming radio companies and helping place that media. We're helping design the ads. We're working with the production department and the film crew to get the ad filmed and then we're working with them on SEO, working with them on creating content what type of content? How often to create the content and post the content. We're working on all of the above, but every client is obviously different. Every agency is different. Every law firm is different. One law firm doesn't need the same thing as the next law firm, so it's tweaking these strategies for each law firm or each client, depending on what their needs are, and finding new effective strategies that are actually making a dent in the bottom line, that are actually moving the needle through direction and awareness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's a mouthful. I mean, what you just described is everything from very small projects to a massive multimedia scope. So who is your avatar Like? Who do you like to see walking through your office door or getting on the phone for an initial consultation for you? Because our members are interested. They don't want to waste your time. So, either in terms of revenue that you're doing or how much money they're devoting to marketing, who is perfect for you?
Speaker 2:Size law firms, businesses. I've worked for enterprise sized businesses I've worked for with the CMOs of large law firms and I work directly with the chief marketing officer. And then I've also worked with the solo practitioner that says you know what? I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what my messaging is. I don't know what my unique sales proposition is. I don't know what type of media to buy. I don't know how to buy it. I don't know how to create my ads.
Speaker 2:And I help them, on a one-on-one basis, figure all that sort of thing out, help them get it up and running, and then I help them connect to Google Search Console and Google Analytics so that they can monitor the results, like who's coming to their website, or set up call tracking phone numbers for them so that they can track the calls that their advertising generates and help them realize what they're actually getting out of the advertising. I work with the law firms that are tired of placing billboards on the side of the interstate, that are tired of working with the local TV station, that are tired of working with the local TV station. They're tired of working with the local radio station and they're moving from radio station to TV station and they're expecting different results because they're not working and they're having to constantly change. So that's kind of the definition of insanity, I would say.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it also sounds like someone that doesn't have a strategy right. So if you're talking one language to the radio guy, another language to the TV guy, another language to the web guy, expecting all of them to work together to produce you cases that you want, that sounds like it's hard. So let me ask you this. So one of the challenges that lawyers have in dealing with media vendors, partners, is that we don't really know what questions to even ask. And then, ryan, we have a hard time judging the answers. So someone who's listening to this podcast is thinking you know what? Here we are. It's near the end of 2024. I really want to refresh. I want to. I got to do something better for 2025.
Speaker 1:I'm going to contact some of these big branded web development firms for lawyers and they're all going to be told I will tell you this because I've engaged in this project they're all going to be told that their website sucked. There's 417 bad things wrong with it, and here's our audit of your site. But it's really hard to tell by these initial interviews. Okay, I can trust this and I can trust this. I mean, you can trust them all, but who's going to help me? So what should the lawyer be listening for or looking at? Do you think, in trying to decide on a digital marketing partner to go with Because these should be long-term, I think engagements right. You're getting married for a certain part of time. Both sides should win. What should we be listening for and looking for, ryan?
Speaker 2:There's a lot of things that we should be looking for. We should be looking for the experience of the agency. We should be asking for. We should be looking for the experience of the agency. We should be asking the right questions.
Speaker 3:We should be talking to them on what types of other law firms that they've worked with what they've.
Speaker 2:excuse me one second.
Speaker 1:Yeah, take care of the dog. I have dogs too, folks, so I get it when you're trying to do something at home and the UPS and the Amazon delivery person is at the front door.
Speaker 2:Sorry, that was an Amazon package.
Speaker 1:It happens, yes, it happens frequently this time of year. Yes, we're just talking about, like, what we should be listening for and what sort of questions we should be asking a potential partner in our advertising and marketing spend.
Speaker 2:What types of media do they have experience working with? What types of law firms have they worked with? What types of measurement tools are they using? Are they using Google Analytics? Are they using Google Search Console? How are they measuring the results? What defines success? That is a perfect question that you should be having with your ad agency. Is that going to be defined by phone calls? Is that going to be defined by actual cases that the law firm brought in? But that firm that you're looking to work with should also understand intake. How is the firm answering the phone? Who's answering the phone? I've worked with some law firms that don't have that straight that they're not answering the phone. Well, they're missing phone calls. I've listened to plenty of calls that were voice messages left, that were very good leads that were not followed up on. Nobody got back to them. So it's very important to figure out what's the definition of success and how is success going to be tracked.
Speaker 1:Look, most law firms are horrible at intake and sales. They just are. And anybody who's listening to this? If you're not recording your calls and listening to your team, they just are. And anybody who's listening to this. If you're not recording your calls and listening to your team, then you should do this and you are going to be surprised. Even like well-trained teams that are trained and trained again, miss it from time to time. But, ryan, most firms across America unless you're a big, mega firm with a fully dedicated teams, they flunk at intake, unscripted on empathetic. Oh, the phone rings. It's bothering me Cause I have this file I need to work on, and so that must make your job really hard, because you can do everything Very good You're supposed to do and make the web chat light up or the phone light up or whatever it is Right, and then gets the web chat light up or the phone light up or whatever it is right, and then it must really be frustrating for you to listen in or to see the data right of unreturned phone calls.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean the intake system should be that the call comes in, it's answered by the intake specialist, it's put into an email queue where an email automatically goes out to that potential client and they're automatically enrolled in some sort of email marketing to stay connected with that possible client and to make sure they're aware of the process of that firm that they're calling. But I've also, you know, web bots and web chat bots on the website are helpful for some clients on the website are helpful for some clients. But I've seen some law firms with chatbots that are so obnoxiously big and huge that you can't even read the website because the chatbot is constantly taking up a quarter of the screen and trying to get you to engage with the chatbot, when all the consumer wants to do is get a little bit of information about your firm and then maybe call or submit a form.
Speaker 1:Sometimes the very best web audit that a law firm could do is to just go on your own website and play customer and make sure that what you think is happening is actually happening. Links work. Web chat box doesn't come up and cloud the whole screen. Oh, how does it look on a laptop? Oh, how does it look on a laptop. Oh, how does it look on mobile, because most searches are on mobile these days. What happens when you fill out the form? Like, what's the landing page after the form fill? Like, what does that say? And again, you'll find that you'll be just you'll oftentimes be very disappointed, right, just to find out that your own stuff is faulty, even before you call for technical SEO or anything else like that. Let me ask you this how did you get to where you are? You're running your own business. That's awesome. We love entrepreneurs. How did you find this space, get interested in it and be able to serve lawyers the way you do?
Speaker 2:I've been an entrepreneur since I was young. I was cutting grass throughout the neighborhood all through high school and even before that, getting my own business and just an entrepreneur from the start. And then I interest in advertising since I was young. I really liked some of the Pepsi ads and the early Apple ads that were out and studied advertising as an undergrad at VCU and really developed a real love for it and I was building websites in early 2000s and from there I went to work for AT&T and was selling digital marketing for a branch of the phone book it was strictly AT&T's digital products, some of which were happen to be direct mail and managing a team of sales reps after that and just really saw what the big box companies, the way they treated their customers and some of the practices that they did to kind of keep law firms and small to mid-sized businesses really kind of stuck. They kind of in some ways rented websites. They would make the client pay monthly for a website and then a one-time fee and being paid and done for.
Speaker 2:So I've witnessed some of the good and the bad of the big box advertising companies and I mean people are people, people want to work with people they know, they trust and that they can get along with De don't? You know? Dealing with some of these big box companies was really difficult for them. So I kind of saw through that and understood, saw a market for that and saw a market that people really don't understand the ever-changing digital world and they wanted somebody to explain it to them. Sit down with them, make them understand what they're actually paying for and what they're actually getting and what route to take. How do I? This is what I need. This is you know. How do I get there? So that's where I define my space.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this because, yeah, you mentioned the ever-changing digital world, so I want to ask you two questions then we'll close up here. It's like, all right, as we're heading into 2025, what is your prediction is a big common word, but what do you think lawyers should be thinking about in 2025 that maybe, Ryan, they haven't thought too deeply about or haven't needed to think too deeply about to date? And then, of course, I want to know where people can go to find out more about ACE strategies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that today and going into 2025, about ACE strategies. Yeah, I think that today and going into 2025, especially law firms should take a really close look at their own web properties, their own image or persona personality on the internet, their social media profiles, all the different places that they're listed, and kind of get an outsider's view onto their image on the internet, because it's ever changing and it's constantly changing at the speed of light. Every single day there's updates, there's new technology rolling out, there's new ways to track digital advertising, there's new ways to serve digital advertising, there's new ways to get in front of the perfect case and the perfect client. So educate yourself. You know. Talk to ad agencies, talk to people like myself, talk to people that are doing what you're trying to learn about. Never stop educating yourself. You know you're running a business. You have to know a little bit about every aspect of business to be successful.
Speaker 1:We think this is exactly right. I mean, we think even if someone gets a name to name referral of you, right, they're going to go check you out and through today all of your digital properties. They want to see what the internet says about you, not what you say about yourself at your website. Correct, this has been awesome, ryan. If people want to find out more about Ace Strategies, connect up with you. Where should they go?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's acemarketingstrategists with you. Where should they go? Yeah, it's Ace Marketing Strategists, that's pluralcom Ace Marketing Strategistscom. You check out our website, learn a little bit about the types of media that we work with and the different types of search engine optimization and different services that we offer, and we're happy to just have a chat with folks that want to educate themselves on where this digital landscape is going in the future.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Look, it was great to meet you a couple of weeks ago. I'm glad we could finally carve out some time. I know it's taken some time to arrange this, but we're both busy guys. This has been very helpful. Yes, I really appreciate you carving out some time to be with us today.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me Ben Take care If having me, ben, take care, if you like what you just heard on the Renegade Lawyer podcast, you may be a perfect fit for the great legal marketing community. Law firm owners across the country are becoming heroes to their families and icons in their communities. They've gone renegade by rejecting the status quo of the legal profession so they can deliver high quality legal services coupled with top notch customer service to clients who pay. Great Legal Marketingcom.
