The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
The root cause of all lawyers' problems is financial stress. Financial stress holds you back from getting the right people on the bus, running the right systems, and being able to only do work for clients you want to work with. Financial stress keeps you in the office on nights and weekends, often doing work you hate for people you don't like, and doing that work alone.
(Yes, you have permission to do only work you like doing and doing it with people you like working with.)
The money stress is not because the lawyers are bad lawyers or bad people. In fact, most lawyers are good at the lawyering part and they are good people.
The money stress is caused by the general lack of both business skills and an entrepreneurial mindset.
Thus, good lawyers who are good people get caught up and slowed down in bringing their gifts to the world. Their families, teams, clients, and communities are not well-served because you can't serve others at your top level when you are constantly worrying about money.
We can blame the law schools and the elites of the profession who are running bar organizations, but to blame anyone else for your own woes is a loser's game. It is, in itself, a restrictive, narrow, mindset that will keep you from ever seeing, let alone experiencing, a better future.
Lawyers need to be in rooms with other entrepreneurs. They need to hang with people who won't tell you that your dreams are too big or that "they" or "the system "won't allow you to achieve them. They need to be in rooms where people will be in their ear telling them that their dreams are too small.
Get in better rooms. That would be the first step.
Second step, ignore every piece of advice any general organized bar is giving about how to make your firm or your life better.
The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
Maximizing Impact with Podcasts: Traci DeForge's Expert Insights for Law Firms
Explore the dynamic world of podcasting with Traci DeForge from Podwise Group on The Renegade Lawyers Podcast. Discover how attorneys can harness the power of podcasts to build trust, expand reach, and create lasting impact.
From strategic guest selection to monetization, Traci breaks down the essentials for law firms to thrive in the podcasting space. Tune in and learn how to make your legal expertise resonate with audiences in a meaningful way.
Ben Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury and long-term disability insurance attorney in Fairfax, VA. Since 2005, Ben Glass and Great Legal Marketing have been helping solo and small firm lawyers make more money, get more clients and still get home in time for dinner. We call this TheGLMTribe.com
What Makes The GLM Tribe Special?
In short, we are the only organization within the "business builder for lawyers" space that is led by two practicing lawyers.
One thing we're sure you've noticed is that despite the variety of options within our space, no one else is mixing
the actual practice of law with business building in the way that we are.
There are no other organizations who understand the highs and lows of running a small law firm and are engaged in talking to real clients. That is what sets GLM apart from every other organization, and it is why we have had loyal members that have been with us for two-decades.
It's a motivational tool for me too. Right, the mission and values of Produce your Podcast is to create podcasts that put impact out into the world. And if you're doing that through having people have a heart-healthy divorce, or you're helping assist a senior who's injured, or you're impacting and helping people start nonprofits, like all of those things are putting ripple impact into the world. But the day-to-day of running a business can just really be draining and suck your motivation. So a lot of times I forget, even though it is in my back, in my rearview mirror. I forget about the whole reason I show up every day.
Speaker 2:Hey there. I just want to take a quick break from today's podcast to tell you about an event that we're hosting August 1 and 2. I'm going to be hosting a small, intimate event for solo and small firm lawyers here in our offices in Fairfax, virginia. If you've never been to a great legal marketing event before, or even if you have, this is going to be the place for you to start. If you're running a small law firm and you're looking for ways to attract more clients without spending a lot more money, we're going to be diving deeper over those two days into all of the little DIY things you can do, even if you have a small team. This is going to be perfect for a law firm that's doing between about $500,000 and a million dollars in pipeline revenue. If you're making more money than that, good for you. You're doing a lot of things right, but this event isn't for you.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you what this is not. This is not an event where, under the guise of a seminar, we're going to be selling you websites, pay-per-click ads or other digital marketing media. That's not our space in the market. This is where you're going to learn how to effectively use your next hour and your next dollar in growing your law firm. We'll be part lecture and part workshop. There'll be some prep work to do before the event and some post-event follow-up so we can answer lingering questions and keep you motivated to building a better life for you and your family Together. Let's figure out why you're not making more money, getting better cases and converting more of your leads. Again, this is August 1 and 2 in our offices in Fairfax, virginia, and if you want to be on the early list of people who are getting up-to-date information, just shoot me an email at ben at greatlegalmarketingcom.
Speaker 3:That's ben at greatlegalmarketingcom, and I'll make sure you're one of the first to know. Welcome to the Renegade Lawyer Podcast, the show where we ask the questions why aren't more lawyers living flourishing lives and inspiring others? And can you really get wealthy while doing only the work you love with people you like? Many lawyers are. Get ready to hear from your host, ben Glass, the founder of the law firm Ben Glass Law in Fairfax, virginia, and Great Legal Marketing, an organization that helps good people succeed by coaching, inspiring and supporting law firm owners. Join us for today's conversation.
Speaker 2:And welcome back. This is Ben Glass. This is the Renegade Lawyer podcast, a production of Great Legal Marketing, where each episode I get to interview people inside and outside legal entrepreneurs mainly who are making a ding in the world. Wise group.
Speaker 2:Tracy, thanks for reaching out to us. You know your team sent me this great bio and I do want to. I do want to mention cause you've done a ton and I think that's important. But you have over three decades of experience in broadcast media, executive management and fortune 500 business consulting, the founder of produce your podcast it's a premier podcast consulting and production agency and you. But what's important to us is you have a diverse career spanning startups and we are talking today to solo and small law firms across the United States.
Speaker 2:Tracy, these firms are generally anywhere from one to five lawyers. They might have anywhere from one to 20 in terms of staff, because they are listening to us. They are wise about marketing and about marketing media and Tracy. More and more of them are finding the podcast world, but there's still a lot that are either hesitant or they can't figure it out. They don't know who to work with, they don't know how to get guests and, most importantly, my friend, they think they're boring guests and, most importantly, my friend, they think they're boring, and some of them are. And you know, the reality is that most startup podcasts last about seven and a half episodes and then they're gone. Right, people don't put the work into it. So I'm glad to have you on the Renegade Lawyer Marketing Podcast today, so we can just talk a little bit more. Here we are in May of 2024, and we want to get sort of the state of the art, the state of the business in podcasts. So that's a long introduction, but welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:That's all right. Well, thank you for that. And so my company is Producer Podcast, as you mentioned, and I'm just going to start out by busting that myth in terms of we have several attorney law firm focused podcasts in our portfolio that range anywhere from nonprofit counsel to divorce, mediation and injured seniors and everything in between, and they have all been releasing podcasts, for over every single one of those I just mentioned has been releasing podcasts for over three years with us, and so they are myth busters out of the gate. Right there, a nonprofit council actually just celebrated their one year anniversary, but so one year, two years, three years plus, and I think that actually is a testament to how well it's working for them. One. But also I think it leads to your point about having a smaller team, and not everybody on your team can do all things. So, regardless of what it is in terms of marketing and building your brand and visibility, make sure you're aligning and getting the right support.
Speaker 2:You need to keep that cadence and keep that success, because it is definitely a marathon, not a sprint, when it comes to podcasting, for sure, yeah, and so I think it's a real credit to you and your company, frankly, because in order to have a law firm or lawyer stay with you for three years or more, or lawyer stay with you for three years or more, you have to have made it easy for them to do and you have to have made it a productive use of their investment of time, energy and money into the product the podcast because lawyers have so many different ways they can go spend their money on building a brand, and one of the challenges that a lot of small law firms have to face around the country is that in every town Tracy, there's an 800-pound gorilla, someone who can outspend our members TV, internet, pay-per-click advertising and stuff, and so one of the things we teach is you really need to become, I think, a respected personality, a trusted personality in your market, trusted for ways in addition to being a lawyer, like what are you actually known for?
Speaker 2:And we have found the podcast vehicle to be excellent for that, and we have several members who are many members who are using podcasts and several who are really doing a good job, and they have built clubs consisting of the podcast guests and made a very special group and made it very special to appear on a podcast. So credit to you and your team, because it wouldn't work if you didn't make it easy, I think, for the lawyer and the law firms to get guests set up a program, not have to worry about post-production. Am I right about that?
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, you are, and I appreciate the kudos because the team at Produce your Podcast is very focused on high-touch customer service and pretty much doing the heavy lifting. But I also want to speak to one of the things that you were saying about entrepreneurship. So I think one of our differentiators, if you will, and just me personally, is that I am an entrepreneur and even though you mentioned very lovely things about me in my bio of doing business development strategy for Fortune 500s and marquee names of brands that you would know, like Weight Watchers and Microsoft and things like that, but at the heart of the matter, I am a small business owner. Even when I was a one-man band with my consulting business, I have a high sensitivity to the needs of a small business owner and the bandwidth and the resources of a small business owner.
Speaker 1:And even to the degree of how Produce your Podcast started was because, on the heels of doing a fantastic business development strategy consulting with the global innovation team of Weight Watchers, I decided I wanted to start my own podcast and, knowing because I have a background in broadcast radio for decades, I kind of knew what I was getting into. So I pulled the team together at that point in time to launch my own podcast, which was nine years ago, 2016 and 2015. And then, really swiftly after that, I had the insight to know there are going to be a lot of business owners who need to focus on their teams but maybe not mighty teams, but maybe not with a lot of bandwidth and resources so we could become an extension of their teams to help them and support them and help them grow their businesses. So I think I identify with the day-to-day struggles of entrepreneurship because I am one serial entrepreneur actually.
Speaker 2:And so I relate to that I want to talk about that because, obviously, in order to be you, in order to be one of us, you have to have a lot of energy. I think you have to have inspiration, you have to have a certain kind of DNA. Frankly, for the thrills let's just call it of entrepreneurship, right the rides, tell us a little bit more about your background and about serial entrepreneurship, and then my listeners always want to know we're curious who do you listen to? Who do you read? Where do you get your own marketing and entrepreneurial and business building ideas from? But start with your story a little bit Sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, my story actually starts when I was seven years old and I would go to. My father was in the insurance business and he had a pool of secretaries and you know he had a team and I identified really early on that I did not want to, I didn't want to be in the support role, I wanted to be in the business owner role. So when I was very seriously very young, like seven years old, I actually started my own first business where I had my friends work for me. It was called Jobs Incorporated and I had file folders and, while you're out, notepads, all the analog stuff, because that's the way it was then and I had my friends working for me and that was the beginning of a very long and very exciting entrepreneurial journey.
Speaker 1:So for me, my heart has always been in broadcast radio and audio as a storytelling medium. Again, coming back to my dad, he was president of the March of Dimes. They had a lot of large events where the radio stations would be showing up. I love to call into the radio stations, I love to make requests, so I've just always like. I even used to sleep with an AM radio under my pillow listening to ghost stories. Before true crime. Podcasts were a thing, but for me it's just the idea of radio and business building has been something that's just an integral part of my DNA, and so I actually really thrived in my broadcast radio career.
Speaker 1:I managed 12 stations in the Atlanta area Metro, rock, pop, country News Talk.
Speaker 1:We produced the University of Georgia Sports Network and that really gave me such an amazing foundation to then start my own business, which began doing management training and sales training for other radio station properties. But what I realized, especially as a female entrepreneur at that time, was that there weren't a lot of programs out there helping support and grow female entrepreneurs, but they were starting businesses at twice the rate of men. So I became heavily involved in working with other women entrepreneurs to help them launch and grow their businesses. So I literally spent about a decade working with startups and helping them grow their businesses through an online and in-person entrepreneurial network, and that was the springboard. Then to I had my own consulting business and then ultimately started my own podcast and then ultimately started Producer Podcast. However, that wasn't enough, because within Producer Podcast then we expanded and I created a community for podcasters, a podcast management certification program and co-founded the Podcast Professionals Association. So I guess you could say Ben, when I go in, I go all in.
Speaker 2:You just made a bunch of people like very exhausted just listening to you. If you're watching this on the video later, you can see that Tracy is very energetic and you did all of this in your first 25 years of your life because you're young.
Speaker 1:Oh, exactly, yes, yes, exactly. But I did do all of the podcasting piece of that over the course of eight years, which sometimes I don't give myself enough credit for and I think that's a big tip for entrepreneurs, as you're listening to this is that you've got to celebrate the wins along the way, because we're so much in the building blocks. In fact, one of my very first podcast episodes that I ever released was called the Beauty is in the Beginning, because, as entrepreneurs, we're visionaries and we want to be starting something and we want to be running something, and so a lot of times we'll skip over that beginning phase and not really celebrate that because we're wanting to get to the outcome. And I think that for you to have a sustainable career in entrepreneurship, no matter what direction or path that takes you on, you have to be able to acknowledge and celebrate the small milestones and the small wins, because those are what ultimately add up to be the bigger wins.
Speaker 2:I think so. One of the oft-recommended books out of our group, great Legal Marketing, is Dan Sullivan's the Gap and the Gain, which is all about this, which is like entrepreneurs we wake up every morning and we see the distance between where we are today and this brilliant idea. We got last night at 5 o'clock and we wonder how come no one's done it yet? And it's 7 o'clock in the morning and we go there often, right, and it's exciting and exhilarating, but it can be depressing too, because there's always a chase and what we try to get lawyers to do is exactly what you just said, tracy, which is stop, breathe, acknowledge you actually have moved the world.
Speaker 2:You have supported your family, you have supported your own desires, you've made yourself happy, which is very important, and in often little increments. However, if you journal, like many of our members do, and I do like it's really cool to go back and pick up something you wrote three years ago, see where you were and see the ideas that you were writing down at that point, and go oh wow, look, I actually really did accomplish something pretty big, so good for you for teaching that. Who do you look to for inspiration today, in either marketing or entrepreneurship?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that question. So what really comes to mind because you mentioned journaling is I want to say that probably one of the most impactful books for me that was a bit of a game changer was the Artist Way by Julia Cameron, which is not one of the highly touted business books per se, but she really helps explain creativity to someone who might not think they're an artist. Most entrepreneurs have creative, visionary DNA Again in their DNA. They have that ability to see those gaps. That what you're talking about and a certain tactical tip that she talks about in her book is this idea of doing morning pages every day in the and starting out with just like stream of consciousness, do it, grab a coffee and grab your journal and like, just write. And she talks about a minimum of three pages.
Speaker 1:And I had the experience.
Speaker 1:I mean, as we're talking here today, I did my morning pages this morning and I had the opportunity because May is a bit of a milestone month for me personally it's my wedding anniversary, it's the anniversary of when Produce your Podcast started. So there's a lot of milestone moments in the month of May for me. And just to reflect back on where we were as a business a year ago to where we are today and all of the things that we've accomplished from 2023, 2024, it really is very powerful to just have that and my journal actually happens to be at the last few pages, so it's like this year of really accelerated growth is encapsulated in that and I think to look for inspiration. I mean, the wall behind me is the most amazing expansive resource tool, because we do have so many amazing podcasts that are putting and making impact in the world and they're consultants that are talking about growing business. There's financial advisors who are talking about how to really optimize your retirement Like anything I could really need to feed off of to get information.
Speaker 2:I just have to look behind me. Okay, the secret reason to run and we're going to talk about podcasts here in a minute but my son, brian, and I each have podcasts into the lawyer market and the secret reason is we get to talk to people who otherwise we probably could not get an hour of coaching from, and so we bring our questions to our guests.
Speaker 1:I think that's so smart. That is so smart and I will also say that it's a motivational tool for me too. Right, the mission and values of Producer Podcast is to create podcasts that put impact out into the world. And if you're doing that through having people have a heart-healthy divorce, or you're helping assist a senior who's injured, or you're impacting and helping people start nonprofits, like all of those things are putting ripple impact into the world.
Speaker 1:But the day to day of running a business can just really be draining and suck your motivation. So a lot of times I forget, even though it is in my back, in my rear view mirror. I forget about the whole reason I show up every day, and so if I go on the other side of this desk and I look back, it's just, it's a real grounding and humbling moment for me to know, ok, you've got to keep doing this, because whatever you're doing is making impact, and I know everyone who's listening right now. They're making impact whether they're doing it through real estate closings and changing someone's life with their first home, or whether they're doing it through estate planning and helping their loved ones live on and have things be easier for them, or if they're getting out of a toxic divorce or getting into a good relationship. Every firm is making a difference and making an impact and you've just got to hold on to that, and that is such an important piece of, I think, growing your business and staying in the game.
Speaker 2:For those of you who are listening to this audio, what Tracy has behind her is basically a wall full of, basically, album covers of podcasts that she and her company have helped put out into the world, and so that's what she's describing here.
Speaker 1:Yes and wait. I've got to pause for a coaching moment there because you get a gold star, because a lot of times when we are working with clients who do audio only podcasts, they do exactly what I just did, which is assume that someone's watching it, want to really compliment you as a podcast host for really being inclusive with your listeners, because that is a way that you really build loyalty and trust with your audience is to bring them into the experience, and you just did such a fantastic job of that, thank you.
Speaker 2:I told you before we went live hundreds and hundreds. You make a lot of mistakes and you learn a lot of things along the way, and I am one of those podcast hosts that actually goes and listens to my episodes right, to make sure that you know, to have the same experience that a listener has. I know a lot of people don't like to hear their own voice. I tough through it, all right. So, look, there'd be a lot of bad reasons to start a podcast. A bad reason would be that, gee, everyone else is doing it. I need to do one now. Right, I need to do one too, but let's just talk about and I first.
Speaker 2:You know, tracy, I think I was at a seminar, probably 12 or 15 years ago, when somebody got on stage and talked about this, and this is like podcast number one or something. But today there are many podcasts. Let's talk about the small biz owner, particularly the owner of a law firm, and you've already referenced a couple of law firms that you work with. Why think about adding this to a busy week, a busy day, as a form of you know, another media, another thing that fills the day? Let's talk about podcasts.
Speaker 1:Right. So I'm going to answer this in two parts. First, I'm going to address the perceived idea that perhaps the market is saturated because the new Edison research just came out. We're recording this in May, so the new Edison research data just came out 2024. 190 million plus people have listened to a podcast.
Speaker 1:The numbers of women audience numbers have gone up exponentially and in addition to that, there is a lot of data coming out about the trust and alliance and authenticity that podcasting can bring versus social media. So one of the stats that we just saw as of this morning is that 63% of and this came out through Spotify's podcast global report is that people are more likely to trust the information that they get from a podcast host, a guest on a podcast, or products and services that are recommended within a podcast 63% more likely to trust that information versus a social media influencer or something that they saw on social media. And then people are also migrating the time that they spend on social media into time spent listening and watching podcasts. So, outside of just that, that's some pretty powerful stuff if I just stopped right there. But I also just like to remind people, too, about when people think that podcasting could be saturated. So when I launched my first podcast in 2016, there were 350,000 total podcasts, so I was 300, you know whatever do the math. So now there are over 4 million. But if you think about the billions of YouTube channels, x account formerly Twitter Instagram accounts, facebook accounts, so in just the scheme of pure numbers, the market is completely wide open. And then the third piece of that is that in the latest data, it is showing that when people are looking for ideas, inspiration, education and how to so those are pretty, really distinct things they're going to podcast to get ideas, inspiration and education around how to, education around how to. So I think, just generically, for any business owner, if you're wanting to build your brand, then podcasting is absolutely a fit.
Speaker 1:But then, if you niche down into why law firms and podcasting, one of the things I think is really underestimated is that there's a lot of intimidation around having a conversation with an attorney and people will put it off. People have fear around it. They don't know how expensive it's going to be. They don't know if it's. I mean, we all have stereotypes in our industry and being a lawyer is no different than that, so some of those stereotypes come into play that could be off-putting to someone reaching out to get information.
Speaker 1:So having a podcast as a lawyer or a law firm gives you the most unprecedented opportunity to provide access to your potential new clients by them getting an opportunity to hear you through your voice, sharing your expertise, your perspective on your field.
Speaker 1:And even if there's an 800-pound gorilla in your voice, sharing your expertise, your perspective on your field and even if there's an 800-pound gorilla in your backyard, you get to stand up against that big gorilla with your perspective, your insights, your integrity, everything that you stand for. And people can access you through your podcast at no charge and with a really good call to action, can continue that conversation with you and then they feel like they already know you, kind of going into the conversation. It lowers that barrier of fear and our podcaster doing divorce different. She gets 60% of her business from her podcast and when we say a smaller audience, I'm talking about like 150 to 350 downloads per episode, which 60% of that conversion is pretty high. And she says that people come into her firm and they say back to her things they heard on the podcast or she's saying something to them and they say, oh, I heard you talk about that on your podcast.
Speaker 2:You just packed a lot into that. I did, I did. I didn't think about it until just now, but people talk about Google, largest search engine, youtube, second largest search engine. The way that we my son and I use podcasts and others that we run with we use it as a search engine. So, particularly if we hear about an author and the author may have his or her own podcast, but we'll search for the author's name to listen to the five different ways he or she explained the concept on different podcasts. You know we don't listen to traditional. We have a commute here in Northern Virginia, right, it's not long, it's not horrible, we have a commute. We don't listen to traditional radio anymore because there's always, you know, we have our podcast feeds and our favorites and there's always something great there. So search engine probably third largest right, I imagine now podcast.
Speaker 2:The second is you're exactly right and the point I would make for lawyers who are maybe new to great legal marketing, is that we lawyers forget how scary we are to consumers, because most consumers have never had an interaction with a lawyer. You may have had a lawyer help when you bought a house, do real estate, but we have to remember we find this unbelievable, but most people have never interacted with a lawyer on a professional basis. If they have, it has sometimes been a very unpleasant experience, either because it was something hard you faced a criminal charge, you're going through a divorce and separation, things like that or even a personal injury claim work that we do and so we forget how scary. And so what we are trying to do is to plant trust clues throughout our marketing and long form podcasts where my son Brian will say look, they'll see your advertising, they'll go to the website, they're going to check you out in five other media because they want to know this Are you an idiot or not? And the more times that we can show them that we are not idiots, which is a really hard thing to do with.
Speaker 2:Quote social media, especially some of these very short form platforms. That's hard, it's interesting maybe, but it's not like listening to your Doing Divorce Differently host talk about the many issues that a family may face and being able to really feel like you're sitting in the room with this person before you even go to hire them. So that's incredibly important. And what is the number? You gave us 4 million podcasts. That's a huge search engine right there. Talk to me about. I'm curious now you're doing Divorce Differently. Is that the name of the podcast?
Speaker 1:It's doing divorce different. Yes, the host is Lisa Kosky.
Speaker 2:And so it's a female lawyer. What sort of who is she getting? Who is she reaching out to to come on as guests? I could guess that but I'm curious what the business plan is.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's yeah, so that's such a great question. So for a couple of things I'd love to spotlight about her since you brought it up and I appreciate that is that she's, like most lawyers, licensed to a certain geographic area, so Wisconsin, minnesota. She has a very niche focus. She's a divorce attorney and a mediator, and so not everyone, thank goodness, is going through a divorce, so her audience is pretty niche, so it's limited to people who are thinking about it, going through it, know somebody who's going through it and needs to share it. So when we talk about a lot of people get really obsessed with download numbers. But I love her example because she has a niche geography, a niche topic and a niche audience and she's able to convert 60% of her clients from her podcast. How is she doing that? Well, she's doing that to your point about the guests and questions about that.
Speaker 1:So she will do a combination of guest interviews and also solo episodes as well, and when we very first started working with her, we actually wanted that personal touch to be a part of her podcast. So we integrated a special content segment inside the show called Saddle Up, and the reason it's called Saddle Up is because she is a big horse lover. She records her podcast in a barn and one of the things that we really wanted is for her to be relatable to her potential clients. So the Saddle Up segment is where she can talk about lifestyle-oriented things, health and wellness things. When you're going through a divorce, it affects all areas of your life. She has grown the podcast to even include sponsorship, so she has a sponsor. So not only is it a lead generation tool for her, she also expanded into offering courses online courses and then also has it sponsored, and the sponsor is someone who is a resource for sobriety, because if you're going through a divorce, you might increase the amount of alcohol that you drink, who knows.
Speaker 1:But the thing about it is that the reason I'm sharing all these different monetization strategies is that lead generation for top of the funnel conversion into online courses. So maybe, if it's something like you're not ready to, you might want to. If you're going through a situation where you could do it yourself, you could get a course and do that versus having to retain the services of the firm. You could get a course and do that versus having to retain the services of the firm, and also this whole traditional sponsorship opportunity to bring a brand in that wants to align with that very specific audience has been really helpful to her. So she's really monetizing in all these three different ways and as a result of that and having so much fun doing it because if you're not having fun, why would you keep doing it Then she actually took that saddle up segment and expanded it and then launched a whole second podcast around just lifestyle, because she's a grandmother and she's been a successful attorney for years and she has all of this wisdom and she's happily married for decades.
Speaker 1:She's not ever gone through a divorce, which I think is fabulous, and so her brand, outside of being a thought leader and an expert in the divorce attorney subject matter, has now expanded into being more of a lifestyle brand for her, so that she can expand that audience beyond just that one category of life change.
Speaker 2:So again, you packed a bunch in there.
Speaker 1:I did. I can't help it.
Speaker 2:That's what excited entrepreneurs do, who have a real heart for the work that they're doing. So you're very fortunate to be doing work you like with people you like for people you like, right, that's the clue Never take it for granted. And so the teaching point from the saddle up portion is being known for something other than, hey, I'm just a personal injury lawyer, I'm a divorce lawyer, I'm a bankruptcy lawyer, whatever. Because, frankly, if all we ever talked about was the law, that's really boring to anyone who doesn't currently have a case or something. And so my son and I are known in the community for our work with youth sports and with local organizations and with entrepreneurs who aren't lawyers, and so that's a great point.
Speaker 2:Anyone's listening to this. Whether you're writing a print newsletter, you've got your podcast, you're running other kinds of media, ask yourself what does the community know you for? That's broader than just being a lawyer, because, again, very few people have the need of the whole community. Only a tiny sliver have the need for a lawyer today or are looking for a lawyer today. So that's very smart on her part. The sponsorship thing is neat because most people would think, oh, it doesn't have that many downloads, it's hyper local. Did this lawyer go out to find the sponsor. Did your company help find the sponsor or did the sponsor come to the lawyer? I'm curious about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so again, great question. So she actually negotiated and closed the sponsor herself directly. But Produce your Podcast has an entire service offering around coaching our clients through sponsorships. So we worked with her to format her show in a way that would be attractive to sponsorships. So we worked with her to format her show in a way that would be attractive to sponsorships. We worked with her in a way that gave her the confidence and the comfort level in having the conversations with potential sponsors with a small audience and really helped coach her through what would be in it for the sponsor to be aligned with such a niche and highly engaged, for the sponsor to be aligned with such a niche and highly engaged but small but mighty highly engaged audience. And so the sponsorship circle, which is our coaching program, is for existing podcasters who want to expand into getting sponsorships and there's certain tips and strategies that we implement and help. But ultimately she was the one who took that information, those resources and went out and closed the sponsor.
Speaker 1:But to your point about it being a small geography and very niche focused, we've also had clients in this particular example as an interior design firm, but I bring them up because they're based out of Atlanta, georgia. The majority of their clientele is interior design in that geographic area and when they started building their brand around their podcast, they had Williams and Sonoma reach out to them directly and put Marlo Thomas on their podcast talking about a new tabletop line that Williams and Sonoma was launching with Marlo Thomas, and so this our podcast Inside Design was able to have Marlo Thomas on their 100th episode and that was out of sheer brand awareness and the quality of their show and how everything that they were doing to really connect with their audience. Williams and Sonoma wanted to be a part of that. So that does happen. It doesn't happen as often, but it is possible for not only for you to connect with and bring sponsors in or for a sponsor to come to you. It's just about quality and content and how you're consistently delivered.
Speaker 2:It's about being on the lookout for winning relationships.
Speaker 2:Yes, always Like the question I asked you before we went live, like how can we make this a win for you today? One of the issues that lawyers have who are starting up podcasts and perhaps don't have an organization as organized as you are, is how much work is it going to be for me to go out and find interesting guests, because my friend list is, you know, 25. And then, once you get me on my friend list, I don't know. We don't have that issue, but I'm curious about how you and then you mentioned also you have your kind of a coaching program for the businesses that are using your company as a podcast producer. But let's talk about guest getting Like is this hard, is it easy from your point of view?
Speaker 1:Well, in any area, whether it's from networking to business development, to getting guests on podcasts, to sponsorships there's one phrase that I often remind people of, and that is that we overestimate the number of people that know what we do and we underestimate the number of people we know. So breaking that down is we assume everybody knows what we do and that we're great at it.
Speaker 1:And at the end of the day, nobody's thinking about you. I'm sorry, they're just not. They're thinking about themselves, right? So you have to really understand that. You have to put yourself out there, and podcasting is a great way to do that, to really educate people about what it is that you do, and then we underestimate the number of people that we know. So when you are starting to create an editorial calendar for your podcast, for example, or you're building out a strategy like you were asking about, you know what types of guests might be on my podcast. Maybe you know.
Speaker 1:Start with your core content. That might be very specific about closings and paperwork and accounting and finance and all the things that might be core. But then go outside of that in terms of health and wellness and, like you mentioned, bankruptcy, like that's extremely stressful. So you might have an expert come in that talks about managing stress. You might have a health and wellness expert coming in and talking about how important it is to maintain really healthy behaviors when you're going through such a difficult time. Really healthy behaviors when you're going through such a difficult time.
Speaker 1:You may want to bring in a financial consultant, like an FA, who can help you, or a credit restoration specialist, and so when you're thinking about, you know, start with who your core is. Then think about who your referral network is. So if you're in a specific industry, for example, you're likely referring out to an accountant, to a real estate agent, to a, you know, a bookkeeper, finance an FA, like you're likely referring that business out because people are coming to you for what it is that you do. Well. So when you're thinking about your podcast guests, that's your immediate first round of people who could guest on your show are the people that are going to bring value to your listener. And that, right there is the most key thing of what I said, which is you've got to make sure that what's in it for your audience, what is in it for your listener, what is in it for your viewer, because if you're not providing value, then they're just not going to come back.
Speaker 2:They have almost 4 million other choices.
Speaker 1:Exactly 399,999 other choices.
Speaker 2:Well, let's talk a little bit about Produce your Podcast. What is the range of services? How do people start with you? With what frequency are we producing episodes? Those are the questions that lawyers who come to one of our events, who, again, they see other people raise their hand. I have a podcast, but they really don't know where to start. So tell us a little bit about the company and what you can do for lawyers.
Speaker 1:Sure. So we are designed and built for busy executive professionals who want the benefits of a podcast but really don't want to deal with any of the details of it. Because I was that person. So I built a company for myself and then I expanded it because I knew that, in order to remain consistent and stay podcasting for the duration, that I was going to need a team to support me.
Speaker 1:So with Producer Podcast, you can come into our business in two ways. If you already have an existing podcast, you can come into our services and we will help you by doing a podcast audit of your existing show. We'll help you with growth acceleration, support for audience growth, sponsorship services and even if you want to migrate and if you're wanting to, if you've been producing it yourself but you want to delegate that we have that full service opportunity for you. If you're just starting a podcast and you have no idea where to begin, then we are perfect because you come in and you work and we do what's called podcast launch strategy sessions, where and this is our biggest differentiator is we're going to come at your podcast not only to set you up for the best quality audio and video if video is something that you want to support, but also from the business development perspective. So you work with us in strategy sessions to build out the business model around the show, how it integrates into your existing business. We help you do those very important call to actions about how to continue the conversation after the podcast is. You know we're hearing the podcast and then also, you know we take care of all the technology for you. So we have engineers that are going to make the equipment recommendations, they're going to do sound checks with you. They can even ship you the equipment if you need it, or Amazon takes care of that mostly but we'll tell you exactly what to get you record with live engineers with us, and this is a service that's available whether you have an existing podcast or whether you're very first starting out a podcast. That's a really important thing, especially for new podcasters, because tech issues and as many of 100 episodes as you've done, ben, you know this. It's like once you capture the audio and video, if it's compromised it's extremely difficult to go back and retroactively fix. So lawyers are very busy, so time is money.
Speaker 1:So we have built this model so that you essentially have to show up and record and that is all you have to do, we edit it. We even schedule the guests for you. We confirm it. You show up you record, we edit it. We create all the marketing support around it. We'll do your newsletter. We can do your blog posts, social media posts, video promos, audio promos. You don't ever have to touch another thing and that is what we specialize in and we have a very high touch point customer service to help you navigate all of this. So you work with me at the very beginning for all of the strategy. We have a launch specialist that does everything to build out your show, and then you have a dedicated engineer and a dedicated client manager to support you throughout the rest of your podcasting journey. And I think that's why to come back to our three plus year client retention rate. I think that's why because we're just constantly aligned with you every step of the way.
Speaker 2:As an entrepreneur. Where do you see yourself in three years?
Speaker 1:Oh well, I think that is a fantastic question because there's so much possibility with podcasting and I think that there's a lot of changes in technology, a lot of AI coming into the space and a lot of opportunity for people to become more efficient with their podcast.
Speaker 1:We are positioned in a really great place because, no matter how efficient the technology can get, they're still going to be the busy firm owner, the lawyer, the person who just wants to just have that service done for them, and so we've spent almost a decade honing our systems to be able to scale them and to be able to keep up with all of the things that are happening in the industry, like SEO and discoverability and algorithms, all the things that we study, eat, breathe and sleep that. So I think, for us, we're going to continue to own the niche of being one of the best podcast production companies in the country. Thank you, media Entertainment Business Review. We just found out about that yesterday, but I think we're going to continue to super serve executives and business owners, coaches and consultants, and the technology will continue to make that easier for everybody.
Speaker 2:I think I probably need to have another conversation with you, just about the business building and management of the team and hiring the right people and all of those things that challenge entrepreneurs, because you sound like you just have a ton of experience and you're very good at what you do. Okay, my friend. So what should folks do? I think you've got an offer for our listeners. You probably have a website, I'm sure. Find out more about the company. You probably have a website, I'm sure. Find out more about the company. You've got a book CTAs that Convert Guide. Let me say that one more time. Tracy has a booklet, white paper CTAs that Convert Guide. I screwed up.
Speaker 1:We do, we do.
Speaker 2:Because our folks are very used to direct response marketing. They're interested in this. They're going to want to reach out. Tell them what they should do next.
Speaker 1:Right, well, and thank you for bringing that up, because one of the things that we coach our clients on every day is about having a very clear call to action, which is the CTA and my call to action for you. I want to keep it super simple. You can access that opt-in if you go to produceyourpodcastcom, but by going to produceyourpodcastcom you can learn about everything that we talked about today. There's a tremendous amount of resources. There's an opportunity. You can fill out the contact form, you can connect for a call to have any questions answered. The most important thing I could say is like just start where you are and if you want to start, go to produceyourpodcastcom and you can connect with us and really learn all about us there.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Well, look, tracy. Thanks so much for carving out the time today. You're a very interesting entrepreneur and young lady and I really I'm serious like we'll have to have you back for another round just to talk about the running of the business side of this world.
Speaker 1:Yes, I would love that. Yes, because scaling it with the systems that needed for high touch, high white glove customer service is. It is not for the faint of heart, but we'll leave a little tease for the next one.
Speaker 2:We often we entrepreneurs often bitch and moan about you know, the travails of entrepreneurship, but we chose that right. We chose to not go work for somebody else, and so it is part of the game. It was great to talk to you. Hold on just for a second. I want to have a conversation offline, but it was really lovely to have you on today.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much no-transcript.
