The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
The root cause of all lawyers' problems is financial stress. Financial stress holds you back from getting the right people on the bus, running the right systems, and being able to only do work for clients you want to work with. Financial stress keeps you in the office on nights and weekends, often doing work you hate for people you don't like, and doing that work alone.
(Yes, you have permission to do only work you like doing and doing it with people you like working with.)
The money stress is not because the lawyers are bad lawyers or bad people. In fact, most lawyers are good at the lawyering part and they are good people.
The money stress is caused by the general lack of both business skills and an entrepreneurial mindset.
Thus, good lawyers who are good people get caught up and slowed down in bringing their gifts to the world. Their families, teams, clients, and communities are not well-served because you can't serve others at your top level when you are constantly worrying about money.
We can blame the law schools and the elites of the profession who are running bar organizations, but to blame anyone else for your own woes is a loser's game. It is, in itself, a restrictive, narrow, mindset that will keep you from ever seeing, let alone experiencing, a better future.
Lawyers need to be in rooms with other entrepreneurs. They need to hang with people who won't tell you that your dreams are too big or that "they" or "the system "won't allow you to achieve them. They need to be in rooms where people will be in their ear telling them that their dreams are too small.
Get in better rooms. That would be the first step.
Second step, ignore every piece of advice any general organized bar is giving about how to make your firm or your life better.
The Renegade Lawyer Podcast
Maximizing Business Growth: The Power of Owning Your Space with Paul Neal
Dive into the world of commercial real estate with Paul Neal on The Renegade Lawyers Podcast. Explore the benefits of owning your business space, learn about financing options, and get expert insights to make informed decisions. Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur or just starting, this episode is a must-listen for anyone considering investing in their business's future. Tune in to unlock the potential of commercial property ownership.
Ben Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury and long-term disability insurance attorney in Fairfax, VA. Since 2005, Ben Glass and Great Legal Marketing have been helping solo and small firm lawyers make more money, get more clients and still get home in time for dinner. We call this TheGLMTribe.com
What Makes The GLM Tribe Special?
In short, we are the only organization within the "business builder for lawyers" space that is led by two practicing lawyers.
One thing we're sure you've noticed is that despite the variety of options within our space, no one else is mixing
the actual practice of law with business building in the way that we are.
There are no other organizations who understand the highs and lows of running a small law firm and are engaged in talking to real clients. That is what sets GLM apart from every other organization, and it is why we have had loyal members that have been with us for two-decades.
I'm sure it was not a straight up journey, because no entrepreneurial journey is straight up.
Speaker 2:But what's up for you. It was straight up for a while, until about 2008,. But at an angle, yeah. So to kind of give you the long and short of it is. I think it's a pretty interesting story from my own experience. So you know, you mentioned I'm in Blacksburg, new Virginia Tech. The story kind of starts here Many years ago. My wife and I attended school here back in the 80s, the late 80s, and I was studying engineering, and the reason I studied engineering was because I was good at math and science, I liked it. My father was an engineer but I always wanted to be rich, to be honest with you. I mean, we lived in a nice middle-class household growing up and we weren't lacking anything, but I always wanted sort of more. You know, I had the Porsche picture on the big poster on the wall and all that growing up, and so I, you know, studied engineering, went out and started working and realized pretty quickly that it wasn't.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Renegade Lawyer Podcast, the show where we ask the questions why aren't more lawyers living flourishing lives and inspiring others? And can you really get wealthy while doing only the work you love with people you like? Many lawyers are. Get ready to hear from your host, ben Glass, the founder of the law firm Ben Glass Law in Fairfax, virginia, and Great Legal Marketing, an organization that helps good people succeed by coaching, inspiring and supporting law firm owners. Join us for today's conversation.
Speaker 1:Hey everybody, this is Ben. Welcome back to the Renegade Lawyer Podcast where each episode I get to interview people inside and outside the legal profession who are making a ding in the world. Today we're going outside of legal to Paul Neal and we're going to talk about owning and renting your building and all that sort of cool stuff. Paul is a serial entrepreneur operating his business, which is in Chesapeake, Virginia, but operating it out of the mountains of Blackburn, virginia, which, if you've been in the Virginia Tech area, is beautiful. And, yes, for those of you who are listeners, this is my first live interview in two months.
Speaker 1:Most people know that I had triple bypass surgery two months ago and if you haven't heard the story, I just this will scare the heck out of you because 66 years old, doing CrossFit, refereeing soccer games, I had zero symptoms. Repeat, zero symptoms. I started with a new doctor. He suggested a cardiac calcium score, ct. That is a very simple test not covered by insurance costs, about 130 bucks that let. That showed that I had possibility of heart disease. Test after test turns out I had five blockages. Uh, three of them were big enough. Uh were worthy of um bypassing. And now we're back. So I am a psa for the coronary artery calcium screening test. But I am so happy to be back I'm happy to be alive, of course, back with my friends, and so today we're going to talk to Paul Neal.
Speaker 1:Paul is the owner of Vantage Point Commercial Capital. It is located here in Virginia, but he's a serial entrepreneur. He's the author of a book called Unlease your Business, and Paul's niche, his expertise, his energy in the world is really helping business owners understand the asset of owning your own building, working out of your own building, what that can do for you, how to do it. And, as I was telling Paul before we went live, this question comes up all the time in our lawyer mastermind groups because the lawyers are good at the lawyering, we're learning business skills.
Speaker 1:Not many of us know a lot about real estate. It's kind of scary to us to a lot of people, paul, I think, just because it's not a transaction that they engage in frequently. They buy a house and they buy a bigger house and a bigger house, and they may own a building or two over time, but most of them don't, and so they don't even know the space. Or two over time, but most of them don't, and so they don't even know the space. So I was glad when you reached out and said, hey, I've probably got something that would be good for your group, and so welcome this afternoon to our podcast, our little Renegade Lawyer podcast, sir.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Ben, I'm super excited to be here and I'm already floored by your story because I consider myself very athletic and try to take care of my health and all that too. But you're the second person I've heard. One was a neighbor that had sort of these invisible symptoms that didn't exist and were really sort of on the precipice of potentially a major catastrophic health issue, and so I'll just double down and say I'm going to get the test myself. So I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I've told a lot of the test in the last few months. I'm documenting this story and I'm documenting the recovery and you know, through Facebook and TikTok and stuff like that. But anyway, I love when we love talking to entrepreneurs getting outside of our own world of legal. Tell us a little bit, paul, about your story, like, how did you get to where you are today? What's that journey been? I'm sure it was not a straight up journey because no entrepreneurial journey is straight up. But what's up for you?
Speaker 2:It was straight up for a while until about 2008,. But at an angle, yeah. So to kind of give you the long and short of it is. I think it's a pretty interesting story from my own experience. So you mentioned I'm in Blacksburg, new Virginia Tech. The story kind of starts here Many years ago.
Speaker 2:My wife and I attended school here back in the 80s, the late 80s, and I was studying engineering. And you know the reason I studied engineering was because I was good at math and science, I liked it. My father was an engineer but I always wanted to be rich, to be honest with you. I mean, we lived in a nice middle-class household growing up and we weren't lacking anything, but I always wanted sort of more. You know I had the Porsche picture on the big poster on the wall and all that growing up and and so I, you know, studied engineering, went out and started working and realized pretty quickly that it wasn't. You know, my image of it and the reality I was living were really disconnected. You know I had bigger dreams than I thought I was going to have sort of working that nine to five, and it really was culminated. I was in a meeting once just kind of getting started and it was a small conference room and there were six or seven people in the room and we used to design these custom network boxes that would test networks, like just prior to the internet was coming on, and these were like 70, $80,000 boxes right, they were custom and we'd make them for HP and different companies. And they and I was just kind of sitting there having a surreal experience because the other people in the room were arguing for it must have been three hours about the color of the little rubber booties that went on this $80,000 box and I'm like, does it even matter? What's the point? And I'm sucking in all this fluorescent light and I'm like this has got to be better than this. And so anyway, long story short, my search for freedom was sort of accelerated at that point.
Speaker 2:I ended up going into business with my sister and brother-in-law in a marketing company. It was another story but I worked with them for about 10 years and got into engineering and did pretty well financially. But during that process I had a really good friend that was in the real estate finance industry and you know, again, I always liked math and science and I was like, hey, that's pretty intriguing, this whole idea of finance and he was doing really well and he had started his own business and I thought, well, maybe if I went to work in that space, I had some time based upon the business we had developed. It was generating a pretty good income. It wasn't really requiring all my time and so I dabbled in there and ended up going head over heels and started in real estate finance, initially in the residential area. So I learned, got my teeth cut in the late 90s in that and really started developing a clientele of business owners and entrepreneurs and professionals, and what I was fascinated with was the commercial side, quite honestly, and funding the businesses and acquisitions in real estate, and so I've had some other businesses in there a title company.
Speaker 2:When 2008 came along, my business was positioned to sell and the world didn't cooperate with the global financial crisis. So I took a sideways pivot and it was a startup with a partner in the tech space and we built that for actually about 10 years and sold it. And in the last four or five years there I had enough freedom to go ahead and start spinning up and getting back into commercial, and so that's been my focus for the last four or five years is writing commercial we sold that other company and really focusing in on helping business owners and entrepreneurs consider, you know, whether buying the space that they run their business and make sense of it, Is it a good opportunity or isn't it. And really, a lot of education, because I found there's a lot of ignorance out there about it.
Speaker 1:Right, because it's not something that you do on a right here's what I hear you say is you're good and you have this high skill in the niche of commercial lending and acquisition of space and all that, but underneath all of that is a love for the entrepreneur, like helping, yeah, whatever type of business it is. And you know, mom pa, I often say, like a great legal marketing. We're helping, mom pa, grow great law firms and you're helping them, like achieve their dreams while still doing what they're good at in the world, whatever that is technology, marketing companies, professional services companies, and so that's and I love talking to people like you because you know entrepreneurs drive the world, like we. I truly believe that Nothing good happens until you have the freedom, particularly here in America, to take an idea, put it into the marketplace, risk criticism, but also accept the wins when they come. And then, surrounding yourself with folks who are good at tax and real estate and, you know, get your marketing experts and things like that. So I think so that's cool, like a kindred soul there.
Speaker 1:So when tell me how these conversations start? In other words, do the entrepreneurs, business owners, come to you saying, well, I heard this idea, I saw something on a podcast, I read a book. Now I can think of a good idea to buy the building that I'm going to build my business in? Or is there some other way that this idea is generated where now you can come in and explain? Here's how it's done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you know the conversation starts and you know different. There are different triggers in the process. You know, generally speaking, you know businesses have life cycles and stages, right, and in the early stages of a business, you know you're spinning that business up and so most of us are heads down doing the day-to-day right. We're working in the business, trying to get it profitable, trying to figure out how to get a client or a customer, trying to get them to come back right and to get some stable business. And then we're looking to figure out how we can delegate and build a team and so we can build a business versus basically trading hours for dollars. So in those early stages most business owners and entrepreneurs aren't thinking about, you know, the space Plus. They don't know necessarily what their space requirements are going to be. You know, are they in the right location?
Speaker 1:right, you know, you're just kind of-. Is it going to be yeah, yeah, if I buy something, is it going to be big enough five years from now? Or do I even like, still like the geographic area? Those are, yeah, they run through their heads for sure, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:So it's somewhere generally in the four to five to six year range where someone's they've got some stability, they've got some of these questions answered, they've got some predictable cash flow and they've got sort of a runway ahead in the future. So they know they're going to be around for a while. So it's more of a not just an entrepreneurial idea but a proven concept, right, and a lot of times it happens around lease renewal time. So they sign these leases and they're three years or five-year leases and now it's time to re-up that thing and the terms might have changed at that point, and so it's. You know it's a reflection or an inflection point. It could be that they're sort of bursting out at the seams from a personnel standpoint and they need more space. And they're like, okay, I've done this lease thing, it worked out, but now do I really want to go lease a larger space? And they see the amount of money you know what my monthly, you know nuts going to be, just to lease the space. And so those are triggers. And then once in a while, some of those I won't say smarter ones, but maybe more fortunate ones will see somebody or know somebody selling a business or retiring, and they have some real estate and they bought real estate and so they've got this great asset. They're like wow, I'd like to be able to do that too.
Speaker 2:So a recurrent issue we see is with business owners, professionals, that as they achieve more success and they get more income, they're spinning off income and they might upscale their personal residence. But so many of us upscale our lifestyle right To match that income, and so we're really not getting that much further ahead. Where you know, they're like well, how can I reinvest a lot of this money? And honestly, ben, a lot of the conversations come because people will talk to us about buying investment, real estate, business owners, right, they want to buy a multifamily or a duplex or whatever. We're like okay, that's fine, but let's talk about what you know. What do you do with your current business? You're literally walking on an investment. You know, have you considered?
Speaker 1:owning that They've listened to all those podcasts and visited all of those websites and everybody wants to have an Airbnb portfolio.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they do and you know they're you, they're signing up to plunge toilets and all that and obviously there are ways around that and we're an advocate to that. But ironically, when you're buying investment real estate, pure investment real estate, like Airbnbs and all these other things you're going to need 20%, 25%, 30% down payment. What most people don't realize is if you're buying the space that your business operates out of 51%, in most cases you can get into that space for zero to 10% down, and so a lot of times there's a lot less capital out of your pocket to get into that space versus going out and buying all these other investment products.
Speaker 1:So I think a lot of people don't realize that and, honestly, because again we don't engage in these transactions frequently, we don't even know who to go to talk to. And then who do you trust? And so let's talk about because I want to talk about sort of the finance side things that a prospective buyer should be thinking about or maybe want to think about. And then I want to talk about finding the deal, finding the building, the space that you want to buy. So we're recording this. It's May, it's May of 2024, in case someone listens to it later, Show me sort of the world of finance as it is today. Headlines are about rising interest rates and things like that. What does it really feel like for someone on the ground like you are helping entrepreneurs by the place they're going to work out of, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's, you know, a wide open question. There's a lot of areas we can go to. Yeah, and that's a wide open question. There's a lot of areas we can go to. But yes, there's been a lot of PR and it's legitimate that interest rates have gone up. The Fed has went on this curve of increasing their prime rate over the last couple of years pretty significantly. They're pretty much done that. They've signaled that. They actually came out yesterday and said we're not going to raise rates anymore. All the money is worth the top end and the next moves will be to start to cut. So I think the pain of that has kind of gone by the wayside. But to sort of understand, like the financing piece, interest rates certainly impact the decision.
Speaker 2:There are ways to mitigate that with different loan programs. There are ways to mitigate that with different structures. Like, for instance, we have an entrepreneur, he is a high-end residential home improvement company and we just helped him build a flex warehouse space which is in really high demand flex warehouse 12,000 square feet and he's going to occupy about, I think, six, no, about seven or 8,000. Yeah, he's got 4,000. He's, and he's going to occupy about, I think, about 7,000 or 8,000. Yeah, he's got 4,000. He's leasing out to two other companies and so he's generating revenue from those two tenants that are offsetting his mortgage payment and actually almost making the entire mortgage payment. And that's in this rate environment right now. So if you look at that interest rate in the context, it's significantly less than the current rates.
Speaker 2:But that being said, there's basically five ways to finance owner-occupied commercial real estate. One is cash, which is pretty easy. We don't really recommend it, but you can do it. You can get a seller to finance it. Sometimes sellers will do that, some are part of it. You can go a seller to finance it.
Speaker 2:Sometimes sellers will do that, some are part of it. You can go conventional financing walk into your local bank who their claim to fame is they love to help small businesses, but the reality is that's more of a marketing pitch than reality. Expect to pay 20 to 30% down payment when you walk into the bank and shorter loan terms and loan covenants and things like that that you might not be happy about. And then SBA, small Business Administration, has two programs that can fit, based upon scenarios. One is the 504 and one is a 7A, and they're both can be really good, for a first time, owner occupied real estate purchases. They both have their pluses and minuses Interest rates. Today, even in this environment, and as we're speaking, the prime interest rate is 8.5% To buy an owner-occupied commercial space, you're going to be in the 6.5% to 7.5% range, all the way up to 11%, based upon which program you go with.
Speaker 1:Hey guys, this is Ben. If you like what you've been hearing on this podcast not just the marketing and practice building strategies, but the philosophy of the art of living your best life parts. You should know that my son, brian, and I have built a tribe of like-minded lawyers who are living lives with their own design and creating tremendous value for the world within the structure of a law practice. We invite you to join us at the only membership organization for entrepreneurial lawyers that is run by two full-time practicing attorneys. Check us out at greatlivingmarketingcom. And so you're again just talking about the finance. Your role is what Somebody listens to. This podcast even gets your book. This is perfect for my next stage of my entrepreneurial journey. Your advisor, tell us what's your coaching role and professional services role for someone who's in this space.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So our role is. I think we're unique in the marketplace. We may not be the only company that does this, but our focus is education, and so we work with clients and we like to work with people well in advance of this decision that I'm going to buy a property, right, it's not like buying a personal residence where your wife says, hey, hey, honey, I think I wanted some extra space, or I want a view of the water or whatever, and 30 days later you can be in contract and the house can close right. Commercial is much more involved because there's a lot of considerations. You know the space, what your space needs going to be. What are the finances look like? How is it going to impact my customer, my client, my patients or, you know, whatever patients or whatever the location? So there's a lot of factors. How much time is left on the lease? Will my lease soar, go month to month for me for a while if I need to? So we like to say 12 to 24 months in advance, if you're thinking about it, that we should have a conversation, and our whole mission, ben, is to do a deep dive with someone and understand their current business, where they expect to go, what are their goals, what are their concerns, and then dig deep into potential issues that they may have.
Speaker 2:We have a process that uncovers what I call the skeletons, brings the skeletons out of the closet. Because the reality is what most people don't realize is that in today's lending environment, whether it's residential or commercial, any skeletons that you have will come out of the closet, but you just don't want them coming out of the closet at the end of the process. So in commercial we want to know early and upfront, and most of the time we can mitigate or deal with it and work with it. And if we know upfront then we can resolve it or at least paint the proper picture to get the approval that you need for the loan. It's when surprises show up, and what I always tell people is you don't want to rush in to a decision like.
Speaker 2:I'll get a call once in a while from a client or a realtor. A lot of times it's a residential realtor, which they're wonderful people, but they don't understand the commercial space, and so they've had a client and helped them buy a few homes and then now they want to buy this space and so they've engaged in a contract and this contract is completely unrealistic. They may have engaged with a commercial realtor who knew they didn't know what they were doing, and so let's just say it wasn't the best contract for the buyer. And so our role is to go deep, understand your situation, educate and then basically completely underwrite and say, okay, ben, based on your situation, what you're trying to do, here's the three or four options that are available into the market for you right now. We are sort of you could figure us as a funding concierge.
Speaker 2:Generally speaking, we don't use our own money. We work with local banks, national banks, non-bank lenders, we work with insurance companies. There's a ton of sources of capital out there that we work with, and our goal is to present the best options to you to make an intelligent decision. Like, for instance, you know, okay, here's a 7A program, and if you choose this option with this down payment, then you need more collateral, which means the SBA is going to want to put a lien on your house. Now, your wife might not like that or your husband might not like that, right? So here's another option with a 504, where they're not going to require a lien on your house. Or if you want to put some additional money down, here's another option, here's the interest rates and here's and we can do an analysis and show the cost of the different loans over time so over five years, 10 years, 20 years versus renting, the different loan programs and whatnot.
Speaker 2:So we're all about education. And the other thing we're about is saying and identifying early and upfront and say, yeah, I don't think this is a good idea for you, and here's why. And here's some things you need to work on between now and whatever. If your lease is coming due in 12 months, 24 months to revisit this conversation. So it doesn't do us any good to work with someone who is not in a good position to buy.
Speaker 2:We want to work with the ones that are and educate them and then help them make a great decision. So once they make a decision, we pre-enterite. If they decide they want to move forward, they can then go to whom are they want to work with and go directly to the local bank or we'd be happy to represent them to find funding, and then we represent them to the lender or the investor. We're almost like an attorney, we're counsel in between the two and it's helpful because we can interpret what's going on with the questions the lenders and investors are asking versus the client situation. Communicate both in a in a way that makes sense and is most helpful. Plus, the business owner, the entrepreneur, can stay focused in their lane and whether it's in law or it's in you know building widgets, building widgets or you know veterinary they can stay there and not have to worry about. You know all the things that are going on and wondering clients were like I can deal with that you had three prior accidents.
Speaker 1:If I know about, you had three prior accidents and I can give you great advice, but if I hear about it for the first time at trial, we're in trouble and then in our you know, in our disability space, like our favorite client that comes to us as someone who says I'm still working, I'm thinking I'm a doctor and I'm a doctor and I've got to practice and I've got partners, but I've got a hand tremor and I'm thinking I may need to not be able to practice, but I'm coming to months in advance of any decision so that we can figure out if it's the right choice.
Speaker 1:Again, same language you just used figure out how to deal with any issues, understand the different insurance policies involved and set the claim. And set the claim claim up ethically, appropriately, of course, but so they don't step in it and do you, and so you're spending. It seems like a significant amount of time and you probably have, I imagine, resources for the potential, your next potential client, in addition to one-on-one talking. But you get compensated at the end of the deal if it goes through. Or are you getting compensated for any of this? You're doing entrepreneurial consulting, my friend. You're doing life consulting. You know one or two years in advance, 24 months ahead of time, yeah, so it's both.
Speaker 2:So, generally speaking, when someone will do an initial sort of a deep dive conversation, we have about six key areas that we check off to see if you potentially could qualify, if it makes sense and if you pass all those filters and you want to go deeper and get the full underwrite and get you know and not just a full underwrite but a relationship with us. So we're available to answer questions and all this in the interim during the process. We charge a small fee for that. It's not a lot like $3,000 for that engagement.
Speaker 2:And then you're yeah, and then you're buyer ready, and that way we can justify putting our resources there. The other thing is we found that our clients take it a little more seriously when they're paying a little bit for it.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, I mean, it's just like and here's the thing, if you can't invest $3,000, you probably shouldn't buy a million dollar building. It's probably not a good idea. I would say, just rent. And then, if we do engage in an actual transaction, most of the time our investors pay us directly, so it doesn't even cost the client anything. There are some occasions where there's a direct fee involved, but that's way in advance and you know up front that would be one of the choices that you'd make, you know, based upon a particular scenario.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so that's how it works and most people are fine with that. They understand, you know they're business owners, investors or entrepreneurs and they've got time and that way we're under no pressure, so we don't feel like we have to do a deal with you. Our goal is to go deep, educate. That's where we provide our real value and say here's the market, here are options. And the cool thing that we have because we deal with so many clients and we have so many investors is where most business owners are very myopic. They might have a relationship with their local banker because they've got a depository relationship there. They've had that for years and that's all the bank wants anyway is your deposit.
Speaker 1:They don't want to do loans. I remain a client of a particular bank, that's all. A client of a particular bank, that's all.
Speaker 2:Oh, oh, my gosh, yes, inertia. Yeah, since we've moved, I need to set up a local bank account. I just think about the pain I have to do just to move my personal accounts, not to mention business. But the bank wants your, that's. What they all want is your deposit so they can loan it back out in a fractional manner, and all that. They do not really want to loan you a million dollars or $2 million. They will, but again, the terms you might not be happy with, particularly the fine print.
Speaker 2:But what we have is we have a view, a landscape, of a national landscape, and so there are some national lenders and the appetites change with the different lenders as the market changes, as you just mentioned a little while ago, I mean the current environment. It's been quite the dynamic and volatile, you know, financial market over the last couple of years, and so you have one bank that's coming in saying I want to do this, or one investor and another one that's saying, oh, not today, not this week, you know, and it's a moving target, and so that's our job too, to know that, to say, okay, you know, here are the options for you where you would fit in the box are the options for you where you would fit in the box, and so we find that we that's how we feel like we can add value.
Speaker 1:If someone chooses, you know that they want to work with us to actually place the loan Let me ask you this because so the amateur like me I'm pointing to myself, the amateur you read the headlines and you read about the commercial landscape being weak. I took the. I went into Washington DC, which is right around the corner from where we are, and repeatedly you see and hear people aren't coming and the commercial real estate market is weak. Does that, generally speaking and I know every geographic location is going to be different, but generally speaking, has that inured to the benefit of entrepreneurs who are looking for their first space? Is there truly an opportunity? Let's just take maybe Virginia, writ large Again, lots of different cities and towns in Virginia. I get it, but in 2024, is there opportunity that maybe doesn't exist? Pre-covid.
Speaker 2:So it's really an interesting question. You know, and you talk about, real estate is local. It's different everywhere and even within real estate, you know, you have all these different asset classes. So when you hear the talk, like the mainstream media and all they're really pushing you know the office conundrum, right Since COVID, nobody wants to go into the talk like the mainstream media they're really pushing. You know the office conundrum, right Since COVID, nobody wants to go into the office, right? And so you see these large, you know class A buildings are, you know, 50% occupied. So there is a trend for employees to bring their employees back in. I think a lot of them have learned that productivity has dropped significantly, which is a whole other conversation. Right, when you drive down the street in the middle of the day and everyone's out mowing their lawns and all that.
Speaker 1:We go to Topgolf in the middle of the morning and they're all working.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, working, that's right.
Speaker 2:So most of our clients, ben, are the smaller businesses that have a need for that, have always had a need for employees to come in or patients or clients or whatever, and so they're generally not going to be in these big class A buildings and so it doesn't really affect ours, most of ours.
Speaker 2:When I think small businesses, they're in a small retail space or an office condo or they got a flex space or they built a building for the vet practice and all that and that stuff's in super high demand and no matter where you go, it seems like you don't do a lot in New York and California, but everywhere else it seems like it's in great demand because people still you know, yeah, we had the Amazon wave and everything's delivered to you, but you know you're still going to take your dog in when he gets sick. You know you still have to go see your CPA face to face and find out how big the check you got to write, you know, is going to be. You know, and then, like a lot of these home service companies, your contractors, your HVAC companies, your plumbers oh, my gosh, the plumber. When we, when he came to our house, I was floored to fix a little plumbing, how much you know.
Speaker 1:When he came to our house, I was floored to fix a little plumbing, I started to realize I'm in the wrong business. I didn't do it this time. I didn't get it wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know it's like I'll get visions of this leak into the wall and then disaster. But those businesses they're thriving and I think they will continue to thrive and so I don't know.
Speaker 2:I can't say well, there's a golden opportunity to come in here and buy this stuff at a discount. I'm not seeing that. If there's an opportunity, it would be for those that buy when the interest rates are at sort of the peak of the market and they're starting to turn 12, 24, 36, 48 months from now, when they've come down some I don't expect them to come down, but so much there'll probably be even more demand on the property which drives price up, you know. So I think the opportunity is more of an opportunity cost, right when you look in the long run. So if buying makes sense, if the financial numbers make sense today, then here's the thing.
Speaker 2:Like my friend Kathy was an OBGYN still is. Her husband sort of kicked her in the rear to buy her building 12, 13 years ago. Well, she's paid the building off, built a local practice. Patients came, you know, even during COVID, because people get sick and they have babies. They got to come right. So she had that. Well, one of these medical groups came in and was buying up practices Even during COVID, because people get sick and they have babies. They got to come right. So she had that. Well, one of these medical groups came in and was buying up practices. She saw a golden opportunity, sold the practice, got a nice fat paycheck and said, hey, I still want to work another three or four years, but on my terms they're like this is great, you can stay there, you can run the place. And oh, by the way, I own the building. So they're like no problem, we don't want to move the practice because all the patients are there, all the employees are. We'll just pay you rent to the tune of five, five figures every single month on your building coming in.
Speaker 2:And so the moral of the story is 12 years, 13 years later, if she was renting the space, regardless of the acquisition cost, regardless of the interest rate at the time, regardless of any of that, 12, 13 years would have passed and she either would have had this asset that's now throwing off six figures in income annually, or she wouldn't. And so you got to weigh that into your overall financial plan. And what's the goal? And the thing about real estate is we both know that it goes like this in the short run, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But generally speaking, on the long run 5, 10, 15, 20 years out and I don't recommend buying a space. If you're going to be, you have a shorter timeframe than five years on, your business Generally it's going to go up and there's some tremendous advantage there. You've got the tax advantages, the equity, and it becomes a forced almost becomes a forced savings plan for a lot of high income earning professionals and entrepreneurs because they're forced to put money in the bricks and mortar every single month where they might go buy a boat, you know, or a fancy car that you know, you lose 50% of the value and you're driving off the lot or whatever and all that stuff's great. But you know why miss the opportunity?
Speaker 1:Let me switch gears sort of entirely, because I want to poke your entrepreneurial brain a little bit, because it sounds like you're very smart about marketing and positioning yourself and creating a unique message and delivering and showing up differently. I think is what we would call that. Talk to us a little bit about vantage point commercial capital. How many people under roof do you have? I'm curious about your vision for that, because you're having owners come to you and pour out their soul and their vision and probably half of them don't have a clear, articulable vision for three and five years, I suspect. But tell me about you what's your biggest headache? What do you just love doing besides talking to entrepreneurs?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, our vision is to help a thousand entrepreneurs own their building. That's our space in the next five years. That's really the the vision, because we feel like our vision is bigger than what we do day to day. You talked about early on this conversation about, like I'll paraphrase but helping business owners, helping entrepreneurs win, that's really what. That's my dna, because I feel, like man, that we as business owners, entrepreneurs, are the drivers of the world. Right, I mean government just spends money that we create. Right, we drive the economy and we give opportunity to people. We're in the community.
Speaker 2:We're impacting, right, I mean through our employees, through our influence, through our customers and clients and all that. And so we really have an opportunity to make a difference and make an impact. And I feel like our vision is we're trying to create an ownership mentality. If you own a business, let's own the real estate, let's own the market, because I think entrepreneurs have great values. By and large, people say, say, well, they just greedy, they want to get rich. No, it's way beyond that, right, we can't get rich until we serve and help.
Speaker 1:A lot of people right it, and I have a t-shirt that says life is about engaging and win relationships, like if we do a deal, you have to feel you won. I have to feel I've won and we've created value for the world and there's no shame in that. In fact, people should like be paying attention to what you're saying, because if we would just like start now, I'm on my rant. But if we would teach this stuff in high school and college, right, and teach people that you need to be productive and there's lots of ways to be productive and lots of ways, it's not like zeroum game, right, one and one is 10. So that's awesome. Talk to me a little bit about is vantage point. You alluded to this earlier. But is your work Virginia region? You said you've got investors, so you have a pool of people that have money. People or organizations have money that are looking to participate in commercial real estate deals. That's interesting. A whole other topic, but where is your work yourself? Limited to Virginia businesses, or are you beyond?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, we're national. Yeah, we can serve people anywhere nationally and we do and we love to do it. And again, not only you know, our main focus and drive is the owner user space. But we do a lot of other investment commercial property outside of that. Because, again, you have a business owner who, or a professional who's making a lot of money. They're spinning off cash, they want to invest and you can put it in Wall Street or whatever some people do, but a lot of people want to put in real estate for a various long list of reasons.
Speaker 2:Right, diversification you can touch it, feel it, it's tangible, there's limited amounts of it, there's tax advantages, and so we help a lot of these. Our clients buy investment properties of different types single family, multifamily Storage space is really big right now. A lot of people are doing that, so we do that and we do it nationally. And so, yes, we have private investors. Our funding sources are very diverse, from private investors to venture capital, to insurance companies, to actual banks, a lot of non-bank lenders, things like that. So it's a pool of money that can be deployed based upon the circumstances and the situation in particular.
Speaker 1:Who do you like to read? Follow, consider maybe a mentor as you continue on your own personal entrepreneurial journey.
Speaker 2:So I think one of, from a marketing standpoint and an entrepreneurial and just a head getting your head straight perspective, dan Kennedy, which I know you're a big involved and advocate there. You're a little famous there, by the way. I didn't say it, but I'm familiar with that, I've read all his books and so so don't know a lot about you from that. I love Dan because he is just no nonsense, just bottom line. Here's how it is, and that's helpful for me because there's a lot of fluff out there, right, it's like all right, let's get down to bottom line brass tacks. So I really like him and of course I go back to the old principles. I'm a very faithful guy, so the Bible's a lot of principles in there that I try to follow and there's a couple of really good business oriented pastors and so forth that I follow.
Speaker 1:That I'm impressed with, yeah, so I'm co-authoring with Dan. It's coming out in August the newest edition of no BS Time Management for Entrepreneurs, so wait for it. That'll be good. Your own book Unleash your Business, so that is, of course, a strategy that we teach. Learn from Dan write books. I've written a bunch of them. Yes, what was your? I'm curious and others would be curious what was your process for getting that done?
Speaker 2:So I knew I needed a way to get the message out. I did, to your point, want to create some differentiation and show up differently, and so I thought, well, nobody's talking about this, you know. And everybody I thought, well, nobody's talking about this, you know, and everybody I talk to that's had an experience like with a bank or whatever. It's always kind of they're dropped in, they don't know what they're going through. It's a very stressful experience and generally doesn't work out very well, even though it ultimately, you know they might get it done. And so I thought that's not our process, so we need to codify it out there, let people know this is what we do. So the process was literally I would take I took an hour a morning, three hour, three mornings a week, and and I said, okay, I'm just going to rope this off.
Speaker 2:And it took me really only about 90 days to do it, to do the writing, and I started with an outline and I worked with a writing coach and he helped me kind of sharpen the pencil a little bit. They did some editing, came back and back and forth, so it took about six months to get everything done, the formatting, but it really once I committed to the plan and the outline and thought, okay, what would I want to know if I was on the other side of the table and how can I add value? And then I just chunked it down and said, okay, we'll take this chapter and what are the key points? And then broke it down and just attacked it like that. But it was disciplined into like the hour a day for three days a week. I knew I couldn't do five or six. I was like there's no way, it's the way I work out. I was like all right, I'm going to, I'm good, right. But to say I'm going to go every day and then I don't, then I feel like a loser.
Speaker 1:So I was like I'm going to write three days a week. That was very disciplined of you and I'm and I know that it will be value again. The book is unleash your business. You held it up there a second ago. We'll include link in the show notes. Paul, if people and then after we go off, I have something I want to talk to you about but if people want to reach out to you, what's the best way?
Speaker 2:Best way is the website. It's ownyourbuildingnowcom. Ownyourbuildingnowcom, right, and I'm giving it away. Right, I learned this from you and Dan, right, I'm giving the book away printed, mailed to you. You just pay, I think, $6.95 for shipping and printing and all that. We get it to you. I also have a podcast. It's called the Brick and Mortar Money Show. You can check that out too. We talk a lot about that. But, yeah, but through there you get the book. You can schedule an.
Speaker 1:Paul, it's been great sharing almost an hour or so with you. We love talking to entrepreneurs and a lot of folks. A lot of the things that Paul and I have talked about are just so applicable to even running our own businesses, getting our unique message out there, and I think what Paul has really demonstrated is, you know, he developed this niche interest that he's really good at and then figured out some messaging about that to separate himself from the pack, of course, now has written the book Unleash your Business, has his own podcast and has got folks that reach out on his behalf to get on podcasts like mine, and it's been really good to have you here and chat with you today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ben, I've really enjoyed it and I don't know that your listeners know, but I did reference Dan Kennedy and you are sort of you're definitely famous in the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Dan has spoken for us before and he and I are remaining good friends. And earlier this in the spring, you said you want to co-author the book and so it's a revision, right, because this thing is the third edition and I'm like, yeah, dan, like good, and how long? Because I'm really busy. He goes like eight days. So we had one phone call and I worked very hard to get my chapters done, so no, BS time management like have a deadline and make it short. All right, paul.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was great to have you today.
Speaker 1:Hang on for a moment. I want to chat with you about something. Okay, thanks for being on the program.
Speaker 2:You bet. Thanks, Ben.
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